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"collection_name": "Duluth African American Oral History Project (UMD)",
"collection_name_s": "Duluth African American Oral History Project (UMD)",
"collection_description": "The Duluth African American Oral History Project was initiated by the board of Clayton Jackson, McGhie Memorial, Inc. to aid in the documentation of the history of Duluth’s African American community. The funding came from a Legacy Grant from the Minnesota Historical Society. The African American Oral History Project includes interviews designed to document particular aspects of Duluth’s history and/or important local institutions, such as the Institute for Afro-American Awareness, the local branch of NAACP, St. Mark’s African Methodist Episcopal Church, Calvary Baptist Church and the Juneteenth Celebration committee, as well as document African American life more generally. The interviews were conducted between November 2016 and February 2017.
Taken as a group, these interviews were conducted in order to document the many aspects of life in Duluth, particularly as experienced by African Americans. Business people, educators, laborers, commercial seamen, fire fighters, military veterans, civil employees, community activists and other civic leaders of various kinds, as well as regular folks, were interviewed. Some interviews are brief, lasting 60 minutes or less; others are more extensive, lasting up to three or more hours. The interviewees talk about their parents, their upbringing (often outside Duluth), their experiences in school, their careers, and their achievements. They discuss everyday life as well as the big events in the history they lived. The interviewees offer their own perspective on events, and while there are many areas of agreement, there are events that they each remember in their own ways.",
"title": "Interview with Stephan Witherspoon, Part 1",
"title_s": "Interview with Stephan Witherspoon, Part 1",
"title_t": "Interview with Stephan Witherspoon, Part 1",
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"2016-10-25"
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"Phelps Horton, Rachel",
"Davis, Yana"
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"Woodward, David",
"Phelps Horton, Rachel",
"Davis, Yana"
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"notes": "Stephan Witherspoon was born in Duluth, Minnesota in 1974 and has lived the majority of his life in the community. He is the son of Sharon Witherspoon and the Reverend Witherspoon. He currently works for Arrowhead Regional Corrections in Juvenile Detention and is also a singer/songwriter and community activist and organizer. Mr. Witherspoon attended Jefferson Elementary, St. Anthony’s Catholic School, Grant Elementary, Washington Jr. High School, and graduated from Central High School in 1993. He received an Associate in Arts degree in Human Services from Fond du Lac Community College and a Bachelors of Art degree in Organizational Behavior from St. Scholastica in 2010. He is currently working towards a Master’s Degree in Project Management at St. Scholastica. He lived for a short time in Shreveport, Louisana while in high school and has lived for short periods of time in Minneapolis, Minnesota and worked on a fishing boat in Alaska. His father was the minister at New Hope Baptist Church and Calvery Baptist Church and they played a big part of his life growing up. Mr. Witherspoon’s is the co-chair of the CJM Memorial Board and the President of the Duluth Branch of the NAACP. He sits on the Superior Fire and Police Commission, works for racial equity with the Voices for Racial Justice organization, belongs to the Family Freedom School, and works with the Menthol and Tobacco Prevention with Lincoln Park Children and Families Collaborative.",
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"country": [
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"contributing_organization": "Archives and Special Collections, Kathryn A. Martin Library, University of Minnesota Duluth",
"contributing_organization_name": "Archives and Special Collections, Kathryn A. Martin Library, University of Minnesota Duluth",
"contributing_organization_name_s": "Archives and Special Collections, Kathryn A. Martin Library, University of Minnesota Duluth",
"contact_information": "Archives and Special Collections, Kathryn A. Martin Library, University of Minnesota Duluth. 416 Library Drive University of Minnesota, Duluth, MN 55812; https://lib.d.umn.edu/",
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"date_modified": "2020-11-23T00:00:00Z",
"transcription": "Duluth African-American Oral History Project\nInterview with Stephan Witherspoon\nInterviewers: David Woodward, Rachel Phelps Horton, Yana Davis\nDate: October 25, 2016\nDavid Woodward: [00:00:02] OK this is the Clayton Jackson McGhie African-American oral history project in Duluth Minnesota. It is October 25th and 4:45 p.m. we are at the Washington Center and at the NAACP offices in Duluth Minnesota we are interviewing Stephan Witherspoon and the interviewers are Rachel Phelps Horton, Yana Davis, David Woodward and The interview will commence now.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:00:44] Thank you Stephan for allowing us your time to interview you for this project. And so we would like to start off with a few questions about your personal history, family life, and youth. Feel compelled to say whatever you'd like to say. You don't have to answer anything. And so where were you born?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:01:06] I was born in Duluth Minnesota at St. Luke's Hospital.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:01:10] And what day and time?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:01:11] April 6th I'm thinking around 12:34\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:01:16] A little after midnight.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:01:21] OK. And were there any stories told about your being born, your birth at the hospital.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:01:28] You know my mother says that she was tired when she was writing my name, so, you know it was the \"en\" but it's \"an\". And so she calls me Stephen and I call myself Stephan.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:01:41] Interesting\nDavid Woodward: [00:01:44] And what year?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:01:45] 1974, it's a good year.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:01:49] And where are your parents names? When and where were they born and how did they come to Duluth?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:01:56] My mother's maiden name is Sharlygoins. She was born in Shreveport Louisiana.\n[00:02:03] And she came up here by way of, was married to a Guy in the army, I believe. And what was up here. I'm not sure what year or I'm not really sure she was married or not but she was with, she had child so she she's with this guy in the Army.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:02:26] And so let's talk about what it was like to grow up in a family with nine other children. What is your birth order and what was it like to be such a member of a big family.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:02:38] Well first let's go back to my father. Rachel Phelps Horton: [00:02:39] OK.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:02:40] My father was a World War Two vet. He was a...unintelligible...repairman and a chaplain as well. He was in the Peace Corps for many years as well. And then he settled here because of the airbase. So, and that was in 65'. So that's when probably him and my mother met up here.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:03:09] So the next question was, I'm sorry.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:03:11] Yes. And so let's talk about what it was like to grow up in a family with nine children.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:03:16] Wow, ten children yeah.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:03:20] What's your birth order?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:03:21] I'm smack dab in the middle. So actually my mom had 11 children. Pam was with her when she came up here, Pamela.\n[00:03:29] And then it was Elijah, Sylvester Elijah, Sherry Elizabeth, Samuel Stefen, me myself, it was Sebastian Lee, Solomon Henry, Cinderina, Sarah Rachel, and Salaam Francis.\nDavid Woodward: [00:04:04] Salaam Francis.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:04:09] And you said there were actually eleven.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:04:11] Yes. And Sam had a twin. Her name was Serina.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:04:15] Sam Stefen.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:04:17] Yes, yeah, the twin, Serena and she died a day after birth.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:04:27] Congratulations to your mom. Those are some very beautiful names.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:04:31] Most biblical.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:04:32] Exactly. It's going to say she's very religious.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:04:36] Yea, my father, you know my father was a Baptist minister so he was old school.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:04:42] I really like. Yeah.\nDavid Woodward: [00:04:45] Are there any stories of growing up with that many children, did you live in, you know, had to share bedrooms, these types of things.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:04:54] Oh, yea, I think, you know, I think a couple of us had to share a bedroom. My father had a church, it was New Hope Baptist Church, you know, he had a restaurant called Doc Witherspoon's chicken shack, so we were always out and about. But yeah we had a house, our address was 1017 East 6th Street on the hillside, hillside! [00:05:13] So we, you know, we grew up there and as I grew older and I got into music, a lot of my music is about the hillside.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:05:24] So how was it, how did you relate to your other siblings, especially in the time that you were growing up?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:05:31] You know, I mean, it was we were so busy you know. I remember and I'm not sure if even my younger brother remembers but I'm old enough to remember that back in the 60s and 70s there was hippies started to turn to Christ. It was all over the nation. And it was called the Jesus movement. And so my father was the head of that movement up here. So he would go up to the shore there was like a farm up there somewhere. And I think in Esko as well but you know, he would preach, cook and I just remember a lot of people being around us, taking care of us, loving us. And it was a beautiful thing. It was great.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:06:11] Nice, and are some of those places still around?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:06:15] I believe so. I am in contact with a few of those people who were a part of that. And one guy actually is Mark McDonald. He was the bishop of Alaska but now he is the head of the Navajo Nation in Alaska. So yeah. So you know we talk with him a lot and there's a lot of people, the Fiefields.\n[00:06:36] You know Nancy and Jeff Fiefield, so it was pretty, pretty interesting.\nDavid Woodward: [00:06:44] And how did your family become involved with the Jesus people movement and what was the do you remember how that worked?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:06:50] I don't know what the connection was.\n[00:06:52] I knew that my dad was like in the community and he was preaching he was very charismatic. And so you know he had a big following and so they were just out in the community helping people, I know that he would cook as well. I know that he founded like a Solid Rock Cafe in Superior and then he had something to do with some other places up here just to help people like through, you know, drug addiction and stuff like that.\n[00:07:18] But we would always be stacking wood and helping people cleaning houses, shoveling, you know, all types of stuff.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:07:27] So it seems like you guys were solidified and well received in that community.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:07:32] Absolutely. Absolutely.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:07:33] There were no tension you had known of growing up.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:07:38] I mean no tensions as far as my family is concerned, when, you know, coming from a big family and you know you try to find your own individuality. You know when I first realized racism that was my, you know, a big deal to me.\n[00:07:55] So you know, we all handled that differently.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:07:59] OK and so since your father was such a boisterous person that had many hats, what was it like living with him and having him minister in so many places and with so many people around town?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:08:11] I mean it was great. I mean, I you know, I could have never been blessed with a better upbringing.\n[00:08:19] My father was a wonderful man, you know, I was very close to him and he'd just loved us all and showed us love all the time.\n[00:08:29] And that was precious. You know I really didn't respect it when I was a kid as far as having a big family going here and all these people but now, I mean, it's something I can latch on to it's, it's pretty, pretty amazing.\n[00:08:41] And my mother for having those children and just being there and being strong and you know and we were well dressed too. You know she would sew clothes, we were like, hey, you know, we were doing well.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:08:54] So do you have any special memories or anything that sticks out about, you know, just the times growing up in your house with the, like with the Jesus movement and going to these places in Esko, was there anything other that you can think of? Because I think that's just really fascinating.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:09:13] I mean, I mean you know, I was very young but I do know, I vaguely remember just a lot of people being around but I just knew, and I remember, like you know, preachers coming from like, you know, Minneapolis and I think it was a Reverend Hines was his best friend. I know him and Reverend Reff, Reverend Jones. And then we sit down and talk and laugh and, you know, we'd eat, we'd cook and it was beautiful. Those were good times. And I remember when, every now and then, when Jehovah's Witnesses would not be knocking on doors, my dad would invite them in, and they'd be looking at the Bible together and they would talk for hours.\nDavid Woodward: [00:09:58] Did he ever convert any.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:10:03] I'm not sure, but it was pretty interesting.\n[00:10:06] You know, he never really forced God on anybody but he did share the word. If people wanted to hear, you know, like I said he was very animated so.\nDavid Woodward: [00:10:18] Just to sort of recap a little bit, what were the churches that he ministered at?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:10:23] Well, Calvary Baptist Church and then New Hope Baptist Church and then, you know, he would join in at St. Mark's.\n[00:10:32] You know, when, you had, you know, when they came together for, you know, certain occasions. And then he would go to, I mean, you know there would be revivals and then we would travel out of town to different churches as well.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:10:45] Where did you travel?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:10:47] Oh my gosh.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:10:47] All around the United States?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:10:49] Well we went, you know, the cities, you know, my mom was from Shreveport, Louisiana, Houston, you know, and I'm sure some places know that I don't even remember.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:10:59] Yeah. And so was there a split with the church.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:11:04] Well, you know what, I'm not sure how that all came about but when we was at Calvary and then he just probably, just wanted to do his own church, New Hope Baptist Church which was on the 23rd Avenue East and Superior Street.\n[00:11:20] And I think Matt Carter owns that building now.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:11:24] I trying to think that's the one, hey, isn't that one for sale currently.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:11:32] It might be. I'm not sure. I been back there in a while.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:11:36] OK. OK. And so.\nDavid Woodward: [00:11:42] Places to hang out when you were growing up?\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:11:45] Saturdays, what were the Duluth hangouts?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:11:47] Oh boy, Duluth hangouts. When I was younger there was a age group of around maybe 8, 9, 10, 8, 9, 10, 11, we would go up to the movies. In Kenwood I think. I can remember, well the first movie I seen was \"Star Wars\" when I was in third grade actually. But that was at school, you know my friend's dad had this machine with him and he had a tape and, what's that, and it was a VCR. And so you he had \"Star Wars\" We're like whoo, and then and then the second movie I seen was \"Raiders of the Lost Ark\" I believe. And then we would. So that was in Kenwood. But also there was Chucky Cheese and a movie theater at the mall. So we would go see E.T. at the mall and then we hang out there. No, 9 through 11, 12 13 14, t was called Saints Roller Rink, Saints, and Ridgewood, I believe.\nDavid Woodward: [00:12:52] Where was that?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:12:53] That was up on...I want to say by...Where Krenzen, up by the mall where Krenzen where those places are at. Yep. So you went there.\n[00:13:12] And then as I got a little bit older 14 15 that's when I started going to Faces, The faces, was a 16 and up nightclub. That was 12th Avenue East and London road. And that's, that's where you had to be. Oh yeah for sure.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:13:32] What building was that in?\n[00:13:35] Was that in the O'REILLY building?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:13:37] It was lower, in a lower complex.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:13:48] OK. And so Faces, interesting. What was the address of that building? [00:13:54] Well, I mean, all I knew was 12th Avenue East and London road. I mean, you know, what a spot. I was like maybe two or three years younger to even get in there. But I will follow around my brother Sam and my brother Eli. Eli was a part of the Duluth City Crew, which was a breakdancing crew. DCC, and they had like a lot of guys, Alvan Carter, Mark Butler, Brandon Scott, Mike Mitchell, Ebony Carter, Adrian Carter, Ollie Grant, Chester Pepper, just to name a few.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:14:35] Wow. Sounds like they are very famous and popular.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:14:40] And the originator, Well, one of the originator was Willie Krueger. Yeah, Willie Krueger which happens to be my best friend's older brother.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:14:48] Wonderful. And so, how did you, what was transportation like getting around all these places?\n[00:14:54] Did you walk most of the time.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:14:55] Oh man, we walked, yeah. We were walking, you know, so, you know, my house was on 10th Avenue East and 6th.\n[00:15:01] So we just walked down the hill to Faces, you know, London Road, I don't know, probably six seven blocks. And so, you know, we'd be there and there was an old guy at the front door always, we called him grandpa. And so I had to be like 13, my brother was like 14. Eli was probably 16, 17. But you know, when they went in there, they must have sneaked in somehow. I go to the side door or try to sneak behind somebody in the front. It was something else. It was very, very fun and we had a Little Caesars a block up and then we had Perkins a block over. So you either go there or Leif Erickson's park you know. We would go, well maybe party after or whatever, you know, whatever we wanted to do. It was fun. Great memories.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:15:49] Great. So it seems like the neighborhoods were pretty peaceful then, there wasn't a lot of.....was there?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:15:56] It wasn't that peaceful, you know, there wasn't no race riots, you know.\n[00:16:02] You know it was tough, you know, in the beginning because there was, you know, white guys against the black guys all the time. And you know, and I remember fighting a lot. And I even got locked up for fighting about ten times.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:16:17] Like in your adolescence or throughout your life?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:16:19] I would say from 10 to like 17. And in where my office is now I was locked up.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:16:26] And where's your office?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:16:28] At AJC, Arrowhead Juvenile Center.\n[00:16:31] So it was weird going back in there and you know and when the door slammed behind me the first second I was like am I....no I got keys.\nDavid Woodward: [00:16:43] So the fights, how would they start? Rachel Phelps Horton: [00:16:47] Were you antagonized?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:16:48] My first fight, I was 10 years old. You know when I first realized that there was like some heavy racism. I was in a park and I was playing with some friends and a group of white guys came up to me and they said a white, a white, a nigger, and a white, if the white don't win we all jump in. And so I was there and I think I beat up like three guys. And then that's how it started for me. 10 years old and then I was I was angry for the next five years. Real angry.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:17:23] So it was mostly just kind of them picking on you guys. Well I mean were you trying to cause trouble, were you on their turf?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:17:30] Well at first it was kind of like that. But then again, you know, I got more and more angry, so, you know, whenever I saw a group of white guys and they, you know, looked at me wrong or said something I was all over them, all over ‘em. And so, you know, and then when, you know, when my friends would not be at a party or somewhere and there was a group of white guys who wanted to fight they'd call me and I'd go there, you know, I mean I was, I was kind of like the go to guy for that as I got older. But no, I wasn't proud of that but I was just very angry. And you know, I had to learn how to deal with it in a different way. I teach and now I talk with kids how to deal with it in a different way because it still exists and it's still very strong.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:18:17] And so did your, how did you how did your mother and father react to these incidences with the fights and you know, with your father being a preacher? you know. Was your mom a very angry women when she came up from the south considering all the...?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:18:33] No, she wasn't. No, my mom was pleasant. I mean, she's, I mean, she just has a beautiful spirit, you know. You know, she had a calming thing about her. I mean, my father, you know, he was, you know, just you know, always doing stuff. But you know, he sat us down and said you know, that's not the right way to go on and all that. But you know we had a big family, you know, and so there's a lot of us doing, you know, stuff out in the community and as we got older it just got more busy and we were just trying to find our own individuality. And so it was, you know, he was there. But you know, it's just interesting and we had to deal with it in our own way really because you know it was just right in our faces.\nDavid Woodward: [00:19:20] So and both your parents, coming from the south originally, right, under Jim Crow I would imagine.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:19:26] Yes, yeah, yeah my father's from New York, yeah.\nDavid Woodward: [00:19:30] Oh, New York. And did they counsel you on how to react to some of these... based on their experiences that they had in the south or even here on what is the appropriate reaction or did they say you were justified in some of your actions?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:19:45] Well you know, I mean, I am sure that, which I vaguely remember but you know, I'm sure my dad sat us down and wanted us to kind of deal with it in a way where we could kind of, you know, talk about it or you know, go through it and, you know, that type of process. But if it concerned an officer or anything like that, you know, we would have to be polite you know, speak clearly. Hands down, you know, you know, just make sure that we listen and follow directions. You know I think that, you know, there's millions of black families across the United States who told their kids that as well, you know.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:20:28] And so, just growing up as a child is there any other memories or were you involved in any sports or like school activities?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:20:37] Oh yeah, you know, well, you know, we played football and you know, we played KC football back in the day, we were the champions and you know the Pumpkin Bowl, back. Yeah. And then, you know, we would do that or we would go to, it was called, Big Ten, it was a swimming hole in the creek, loved doing that. So the creek is on like 14th Avenue and like above 4th street, so it's like on forth all the way up to 9th street actually or even further up actually. So because there was Chester.\nDavid Woodward: [00:21:13] It was not Chester?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:21:15] It's not Chester, no.\nDavid Woodward: [00:21:15] It's farther to the west than Chester. Chester would be at 17th.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:21:22] Not much farther, no farther to the...\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:21:27] Is it right by the farmer's market over there by Burrito Union.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:21:30] Yes, that was the creek that goes all the way up. Yeah. We had a swimming hole called Big Ten.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:21:39] And so your father had a black owned business, were there other black owned businesses? Just kind of coming back to your, you know, younger memories here.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:21:52] Yeah. You know, nothing at all. Because I remember, and I was very young, but I think he had that from 75 like 80 or 82 or 83, something like that, I'm not sure. But I don't remember any other black owned businesses that were around.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:22:11] And we're... just kind of visiting those places did you specifically visit black owned businesses or were you comfortable going into like any kinds of stories. I'm trying to understand the climate of the racism.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:22:23] Are you talking on the Hillside, when I was growing up?\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:22:26] You know, I mean places you didn't go.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:22:29] No, no, I mean, you know my father was well known so I mean, no we didn't... I mean we were friends with all races, I mean everybody it wasn't really like that.\n[00:22:42] It was just, you know, young kids growing up. Their older brothers were white and you know, my older brothers, and you know our friends, it was, you know, it was that type of school type of rivalry or or just that type of deal.\n[00:22:59] I'm sure their parents were, I mean, some of their parents, or most parents were racist but as you know up here it's so subtle down south it's in your face up here they'll only talk about it, you know probably in the homes or act every day around black people or whatever. But and then they'll talk about them at home. It wasn't in-your-face. But as kids growing up and they think they're bold or whatever, you know, they'll say stuff and you know, that's when things popped off.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:23:27] Thank you for clarifying that for me. OK and so where did you go to elementary school?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:23:33] Oh boy.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:23:34] What were your schools that you attended in Duluth.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:23:35] So I first started at Jefferson and Jefferson was on, was it First street in between 10th Avenue and 9th Avenue East.\n[00:23:46] I think it's an apartment complex now.\nDavid Woodward: [00:23:48] And many rivers is in there now I think.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:23:50] And then I went to St. Anthony's and St. Anthony's was on 11th Avenue East on Eighth street right across from the church.\nDavid Woodward: [00:24:00] A Catholic School.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:24:04] Yep, why we went there I have no idea but we were there, we were there. And the only memory I have, I have of that school was a little blond girl chasing me all the time. Yea, it was weird. And then I went to Grant Elementary. And then you know, Washington Junior High and then good old Central.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:24:32] And what year did you graduate?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:24:35] I graduated in 93'. But you know, I was, in 92. I went to go live with my sister down in Houston and my high school was called Westbury High School and they didn't have much or not many computers and stuff back then so records were kind of lost when I came back up here for my senior year. So what I did was I practiced with the football team the full summer before my senior year after I came back from Houston. On the first day of the first game my coach says you cannot play because you need 13 credits to graduate all together from a junior high and high school when we were in school we needed 17. I needed 13 and I was a senior.\n[00:25:20] So what I did was I got into powerlifting and then I had seven full classes at central and six class at ALC. My whole senior and so that year, you know, every assembly every concert I was singing the Star-Spangled Banner. I'd have my own song for every concert. I broke the record for bench press after 35 years at central for 420 pounds. The record was 385 and I put up 420 and then I graduated I got all 13 credits that year. I mean I worked very, very hard, you know.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:26:04] Diligent, well done, and so...\nDavid Woodward: [00:26:06] And you're moving in with your sister in Houston. Was that a hard transition moving to Texas moving to the south? Could you comment maybe on the differences that you saw?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:26:17] Well I mean, well, yea because racism was in your face yes. But I prefer it that way, you know, than other one. But you know my sister was, she was a mortgage, or something to do with mortgages are something like that, so she was pretty well off you know. And so I was having problems up here, you know, fighting and having problems, you know.\n[00:26:38] And so you know I had to go away. And so I went down there, you know for I lived with her for the first like maybe six, seven, eight months and then I moved in with with my grandmother, my mother's mother. Well that's like two or three months before I came home, she was in Shreveport. So I love it there. Yeah. Every time I go there it's like you know super emotional I want to stay. Yeah, I live it down there you know.\nDavid Woodward: [00:27:07] Well, you know, I was wondering, you know, coming from a predominantly white community up here, down there where you have predominantly black neighborhoods and communities there and how that transition might have played out?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:27:19] You know it was so interesting because you know, we lived in a very diverse area because she had no issues because she had a good job you know. And so we lived on Fondren and Fondmeadow and I went to Wesbury. It was, just I mean, yeah you know, I mean there was racism but it was in your face like you know I walk into a store and I saw a white person drive by or it walk by they'd shake their head and you know, and I be like, how you doin', you know, stuff like that.\n[00:27:55] But I remember to, she dated this guy who I think played for the Oilers for a little but his knees got bad. But his best friend was a cowboy. See a lot of people don't know that there are black cowboys. I mean first you know, Mexican and black cowboys. I mean you know I remember I went through a stage where I had a cowboy hat, I had wranglers I had cowboy boots and a shirt and I went and that's how I was like maybe for the first couple of months.\nDavid Woodward: [00:28:29] You went total Texas.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:28:31] I went total Texan, I did want to rodeos and everything.\n[00:28:35] It was really cool.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:28:39] So we're there in your schooling years or just in general, were there any particular accomplishments or particular difficulties that you've overcome that have helped you with your growth.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:28:53] As far as schooling is concerned?\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:28:55] Yeah. I'm assuming yes.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:28:59] Yeah I mean, I don't know, I mean I did a lot.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:29:04] I mean were there any teachers, were there any teachers that stuck out to you?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:29:10] Sure, I had a third grade teacher named Mrs. Perry, June Perry, I'm thinking June Perry, and I was very shy as a kid. Very, very shy and I didn't talk much, pretty emotional kid, I don't know why. But she did a portrait of me and I think she won a contest.\n[00:29:33] And so I was always trying to find out where she was so I could see that portrait again. But she did, you know, hang it up in her room and stuff like that and it was very nice.\n[00:29:40] And then Mr. Peshoddy, my sixth grade teacher he was something else. I didn't like him at first because I wrote a love letter and he tried to take it away from me. And then. And then after we had a little tussle and I apologized to him and you know we ended up being pretty good friends after that. Yep that's it. And then I met my best friend Darrel and he came from down in St. Paul. [00:30:07] And so you know when your young, I you know, we were fighting over the same girl. So he said, I'm gonna hit you. I said, no you're not and he did. And so the principal dragged us into his office. He says, you guys are going to become best friends. It's like, no we're not you know, and we did that.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:30:26] Isn't that, that's true, you ended becoming best friends.\nDavid Woodward: [00:30:28] He could probably see some similarities there. You guys are going to be.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:30:33] Sure, for sure.\nDavid Woodward: [00:30:34] I was going to ask you about smelting at that age.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:30:37] Oh my gosh.\nDavid Woodward: [00:30:38] Elementary school, junior high, high school ages, or even afterwards.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:30:42] I mean, all that I remember is this, I remember it was Berseron, Rick Berseron, it was Howard Taylor, my dad, probably had to be other people involved but we would go like maybe to Lester at the mouth or then up, up the shore. A lot of people smelting, buckets and buckets and buckets of smelt, buckets! And my dad would clean ‘em, I mean, we'd have smelt fries and all types of stuff. Yeah it was, it was awesome. I mean I remember like you know, the taste of it.\n[00:31:16] But you know, but just going in certain places it was, I mean he was pretty busy and a lot of people did it.\nDavid Woodward: [00:31:23] And I heard there was big parties at the same time.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:31:25] Absolutely. I mean we were, I mean there was a lot of people out there. It was crazy.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:31:31] I wonder what happened with the smelt partying.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:31:34] Well you know I think the population went down over the years.\nDavid Woodward: [00:31:37] Yeah. It's an exotic species and they tried to control it. But back in the day on Park Point was an area that just would get overrun with smelters and a lot of people were angry because they would cut trees down for bonfires and stuff like that.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:31:53] So you know, I'm guessing you know, it was just out smelted, really.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:32:00] Over Fished, yea.\nDavid Woodward: [00:32:00] They still have them. I mean you still have a smelt fry somewhere in Lincoln or West End.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:32:04] Right, but it's not in abundance like it was, not even close.\nDavid Woodward: [00:32:09] Pick up 10 pounds just with one net.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:32:11] Yeah.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:32:12] OK. And so after graduating did you stay in Duluth?\n[00:32:17] Where did you work, what were you paid?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:32:22] Well, So I had some friends who went to Alaska on the fishing boats and they’re on big ships, crabbers.\n[00:32:32] No but there are processors, so on my senior year, they were out my senior year they came back. I remember some of them having $30, $40, $50 thousand dollars when they came back.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:32:44] What year was that?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:32:46] That was back in 93. OK, so my senior year when they came back you know, we partied whatever, we were kids. And so the day after graduation, me and a buddy, we went out to Seattle, Washington.\n[00:33:00] And then get a job on the fishing boats on the Fisher's terminal we were out there for two weeks, on our last can of tuna, on our last soup, on that second week on that last day we got a job, it was on the Altered Peace, on Fisher's terminal in Seattle, Washington and it took us seven days and seven nights to get from Seattle Washington to Dutch Harbor Alaska.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:33:22] Wow.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:33:23] And that was quite amazing, yeah that was quite amazing. I just remember being on the, cause I was on a fish processor ship and I just remember how big the moon was and the swells of the sea on the Bering Sea and it was just, I was 18. It was massive crazy. Yeah it was, it was an experience I just never ever will forget.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:33:55] And how long did you participate in that activity?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:33:57] I went for you know, I went for one season it didn't really work out well for me you know. I was on a percentage boat. So if you catch fish get paid if you don't catch fish you don't get paid. And we didn't catch much fish you know, we had about maybe 30, 40 people on a ship working.\n[00:34:12] There was probably, I don't know, about maybe ten Caucasian guys.\n[00:34:18] I don't know, I mean seven, and there was maybe three Asian guys and probably about 20 Samoan guys and me the only African American and then Latino Minor. So I had to fight quite a bit with the white guys over racial stuff. But the Samoans said, hey you know, if it was more than one or two, three guys you’re Samoan Nation, you know, will be there. And so yeah that was quite an experience you know. Yea the Bering Sea, that was well.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:34:53] So how long is one season?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:34:55] So you go out for three weeks at a time. And so in three weeks you’re on, or on my ship it was 18 on and four off, 18 hours on and four hours off and all I'm doing is packing fish in like little containers. Our freezer hold held about 86000 cases of frozen fish. So after about four or five shifts of doing that work I'm dreaming, packing fish, and my arms up like this, I'm packing fish.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:35:25] Ok, and so it wasn't as financially lucrative.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:35:28] No, no, no, no, no, I literally got...I mean you know, it was, I mean it was a bad time. I needed to, you know, get back to the States. And so they skiffed me the land and I had to call my sister, you know from Houston and she paid for my ticket. It was like about almost $2000 you know, so I went on three planes back home you know.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:35:53] Ok, and so what, what kind of employment did you find yourself in after the fishing excursion.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:36:00] Well you know what, I was just relaxing for a little while. Because I was away from my girlfriend at the time for a while so just relaxing and partying and stuff like that. And then, you know my brother and my two best friends got murdered, you know. And so that was, that was, very, very hard for the family.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:36:24] And so what brother and what year?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:36:27] So Sam, So Sam.\n[00:36:29] It was back in 94'. It was March of 94' on Sam's 21st birthday and so Keith Harmanson as well, Keith Harmanson our friend and then a Peter Moore.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:36:41] Oh, No, would you like to talk about that.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:36:43] Sure, well you know, I mean I remember the day, I was home and I was in the mirror and I was getting dressed and I was dancing because it was Sam's 21st birthday and we knew there was going to be party going on that night. And then I was getting dressed and I was looking good and then my girlfriend comes in and says, well you’re not going to the party. I said, why not? So why can't I go to the party? Because there's going to be girls there. OK well, I'm going to go anyway. So no you're not. So I sat down and so we argued for a while and I fell asleep. And then around 3:00, 4:00 in the morning my little brother Solomon runs downstairs and says they're all dead.\n[00:37:19] Yeah. And so, so I kind of went crazy for like five minutes for some reason, I don't know why. But you know he says they're all dead. And then, and then he told me that my sister Liz was up at the house trying to get into the house. And so they were at Sam's party.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:37:37] Where was that?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:37:38] That was like two blocks away from my house on, on Sixth Street. So it was on seventh Street in between Ninth and Eighth Avenue East. They were there. One of the guys, well actually was one of our friends, Doug, it was his sister and his sister's boyfriend came to the party and I think his sister got a little drunk as she was talking to guys from East.\n[00:38:11] We hang around a lot of the hockey players from East. And then I don't know what happened but he left the came back. Shot my brother in his, in the face about two inches away from his face, shots Keith in the back of that neck and then and then in the forehead, I think he shot Pete in the arm and in the face. I mean don't quote me and all that but yeah.\nDavid Woodward: [00:38:36] And how old was Keith and Pete?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:38:39] Keith was probably 19, 20, Pete was probably 19, 20 it was Sam's 21st birthday party so.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:38:47] So there was like what, a skirmish, the hockey player left came back and killed them?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:38:52] No, no, no, no. It wasn't a hockey player, it was our friend Doug's sister's boyfriend who was from Proctor and I guess she might have been like talking to the hockey players or flirting with them or whatever it was happening. We'll never know what happened at the party but her boyfriend left about 25 minutes, grabbed the gun. A three five seven, and came back yea.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:39:18] And then left?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:39:20] Well, he killed my brother, Keith, and Pete and he tried to kill a couple more guys but a couple of my buddies from East kind of, you know, jumped on him and tackled him down. Tackled him down and got the gun away from him. And when and when they got the gun away from him they ran down to my mother's house and they, as I was walking up the stairs, my mother was walking down the stairs and they gave the gun to my mom.\nDavid Woodward: [00:39:50] And when did the police get involved then?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:39:52] They came, I think they came right away, not right because they came to my house, but shortly after because they came and got the weapon from my mom, yea. She just had, like upside down in her hand like this and she just fell out after.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:40:10] Yeah, I bet, so what kind of...That's such a chaotic, dramatic, traumatic event to have.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:40:19] It was, it was, I mean I don't what to tell you, you know my father was getting sick with Alzheimer’s at the time as well. You know my mother was busy, you know, she was working all the..you know kids. And it was a tough, tough time for all of us. And so I just remember you know, soon after that, you know, soon after it happened within like a couple of days or so her sisters came up from Shreveport and then we had you know, and then we just had like the whole community. But it was weird because no one at first was talking about it on the news. Now they were talking about my brother and my friends like they were like just partiers and they were no good.\n[00:41:00] And they were talking about this kid like he was a saint that he plowed, you know, proctor's lot. You know and he was just a good kid. And that really got me like...\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:41:11] Angry.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:41:12] Oh very angry.\n[00:41:13] And so a lot of people are mad, I mean, a lot of people were wondering you know, exactly like, especially for me, like what I was going to do.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:41:22] People as in family members?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:41:24] The family or I mean almost everybody because, because I was supposed to be there. So it was, so, so, so, so, it's me and my best friend Darrell, Keith, Sam, and Pete, five of us and one night three got killed.\n[00:41:41] And Darrell was there earlier but.\n[00:41:45] It was just I mean, it was chaos. It was hell. And then you know we... but after the news said all that stuff whatever. I remember you know my mom got a phone call or whatever they got a hold of my mother and just apologized.\n[00:42:01] It might have been Denny Anderson, I'm not sure who it was but somebody really, they apologized to my mom. And then we had all these people just come, we're talking you know, it was just, just out of respect for my father you know, for our family. I mean we had all these people.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:42:19] So there was big community support?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:42:20] Oh Absolutely. And then I mean, I mean even at Sam's funeral maybe 2000, 3000 people there maybe, it was huge. I mean I remember you know, the funeral home being packed way passed capacity. And then up the block people, down the block people, this way people, this way people, it was amazing.\n[00:42:44] But you know, you know my mother had an open casket and my brother had a patch on his face.\n[00:42:50] Oh yeah, that was, that was hard.\n[00:42:55] That was that was tough.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:42:56] How old were you at that time?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:42:58] I was Twenty, yeah, a year younger yeah. When I was 20 so. So Sam got murdered a day after his birthday. His twin died a day after she was born. Born on the same day died on the same day 21 years later.\nDavid Woodward: [00:43:16] Interesting.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:43:17] And it does Kind of you know, in one's mind, like oh wow I could have, you know, been there and that's also blowing too.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:43:25] So do you feel right after it happened that the community, the media sort of convicted your brother of crimes he never committed?\nStefan Witherspoon: [00:43:35] Oh for sure. Oh yeah, I mean, I mean, it was horrible. You know they said he had AIDS and they said oh my god, just a bunch of stuff which was proven wrong.\nDavid Woodward: [00:43:47] Did they say the same thing about Keith and...\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:43:51] No, no, no but they you know, they put him in the same circle like you know, that they're partiers and you know, that's all they did and blah, blah, blah. But I vaguely remember somebody from the news like did a really sincere huge apology to the family, yea.\nDavid Woodward: [00:44:06] And there was some charges of sexual assault and that too?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:44:11] And other charges and you know, all I can say about that is this.\n[00:44:17] When we were younger you know, the first lesson my father taught us was to love and respect women. And that was the very first lesson we know, we we've never had, I mean that never even was even in our thinking.\n[00:44:36] I mean there was girls around all the time you know. And so that, yeah, that was just related to my family and to my brother.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:44:46] Was there a murder trial then?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:44:49] Yeah there was a murder trial.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:44:50] Was the man convicted?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:44:53] Only, only 25 years for killing three people. And then what happened was, I don't know what happened, I'm in the midst of that. But after he only got 25 years and he tried to appeal it and I think he got 61 years after that.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:45:07] OK, so he's locked away.\nDavid Woodward: [00:45:11] And do you feel somewhat satisfied with that outcome, as the 60 years.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:45:18] I, you know, I had to forgive and move on because if I would let it consume me, which I did for a long time, I couldn't function so I had to really you know use my faith and my growing up, latch onto that, and say, hey you know, God let me live and move on and live life.\nDavid Woodward: [00:45:41] What would you say would be the thing that got you through this really traumatic time period, you and your family through this time? What, what types of things helped you through that?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:45:52] Just people you know, family, friends and you know, people who my dad mentored or whoever were around and our friends got me through you know, it got us through. And like I said, you know we're a big family so you'd have to ask my little brother and sisters how they went through that period because I can only tell you how I went through it.\nDavid Woodward: [00:46:17] Sure.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:46:17] But you know, I was just, the guys from East who used to hang out a lot kind of surrounded me a lot. And you know stuff like that. But it was really, really, really tough man. And that was a life changer for me. And after that happened you know my grandmother, my mother's mother was dying of cancer like three months after that. So she was waiting for us to come down to Shreveport till she died, you know, waiting to die waiting for us to come from the north to the south. We saw her you know, then after it happened and then after that you know, I started my blues band you know.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:46:55] Ok, and so do you think that the murderer, what was his name?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:47:01] Todd Warren.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:47:01] Todd Warren, do you think he was racially motivated in killing your brother? The other people he shot were they white or black.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:47:09] Keith Harmonson was white, Peter was biracial. I think somewhat but.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:47:15] Not really.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:47:17] No I don't know. I mean you know, it was just you know, there was a lot of people. I mean you never know the motive to that.\nDavid Woodward: [00:47:25] He never gave a motive?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:47:29] Well he just said that, you know, I don't know what he said.\n[00:47:32] I mean, I think that was, you know, like you know they're being like disrespectful or, or somebody got raped or whatever. You know, I don't, you know, you know, there was a lot of stuff and rumors and all that stuff going on but like I said you know, only they knew what went on and so, you know.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:47:52] And so how did this tragedy and the loss of your father in 1999 impact your family and yourself.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:48:00] It was a celebration.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:48:02] What do you mean by that.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:48:04] He had a long life. He was eighty five years old. He did a lot, it was beautiful. Yeah we were, we had a celebration really. You know, I mean, he was one, you know, one of a kind. And did a lot for people and humanity. And it was a celebration. I mean what can I say. I mean I could've been, I couldn't had a better father. So you know, we really, really, like you know had a lot of respect from people, you know relating, that came in and you know, that you know, the ceremony and stuff like that. I think Reverend Reff from the Cities which you know, is from up here but now in the cities but you know it was a celebration you know, yea it was beautiful.\n[00:48:45] It was, I mean you know, probably individually you know as kids and me of course you're sad but he had Alzheimer's. And he was in his fifth year of Alzheimer's. And so I think the only reason, I mean every time I go visit him in the nursing home and saw that the only way I could kind of reach him or have him listened to me was me singing some of his own hymns and then he would tell may mom, that boy can sing! So yeah that was great. So it was a celebration yea.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:49:25] Wonderful, so there is... so after this tragic... or you know, during this tragedy with your brother, life still had to go on. How did you find regular life like were you employed? You went to school I see at Saint Scholastica.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:49:44] Well that was years later, ok, I don't know, it was interesting because I was in a daze so I just ah, I started a Blues Band, I did blues for like 7, 8 years, it was cool. David Woodward: [00:50:00] What was the name of the band?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:50:02] It was called Dr. Spoon and the Rhythm Union.\nDavid Woodward: [00:50:06] And what kind of gigs did you play?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:50:08] Man, we did gigs everywhere but the high, the high point was during Blues fest weekend at Grandma Sports Garden in 98' and then back by popular demand in 99' and we did the old school blues and I wrote some songs and it was just a great time. I got on stage with B.B. King. I got to say, you know Johnny Lang.\n[00:50:31] I mean you know, we did really well, really well.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:50:36] Congratulations.\nDavid Woodward: [00:50:36] And there were some other bands of that era maybe Blues Allegations?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:50:40] Yeah, but yeah, but you know, I mean, I was you know, looking for like you know, Robert Cray and you know, Buddy Guy and you know those guys so it was a good time for me.\n[00:50:54] You know because I was a singer anyway. I used to have you know, concerts every...almost every Christmas to raise money for the food shelf and stuff like that so it was me, my brothers and I would do... for the first half would be like kind of contemporary and then second half would be straight up soul.\n[00:51:14] So yeah. So you know, so I would grab some old high school friends that we know and we'd do all the contemporary stuff and then me and my brothers just broke it down and stuff like that.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:51:24] So you were gainfully employed doing blues work.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:51:29] Yea I was doing blues and I was working too.\n[00:51:31] You know, I mean you know, my first job I was 13 you know worked at the Chinese Lantern you know, and I worked there for several years. And then you know, right before I sang blues I was working at Grandmas Sports Garden. So Brian Doherty, who is the president now, he heard me sing you know, heard me sing when I was working or something, I don't know what happened but he said, man you're singing at the Blues Fest man and I said, who! so it was pretty nice.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:51:56] OK. And so how did you get... Did your father's...I'm sorry...did your brother's murder somehow initiate any sort of activist role in your life that you would want to work with children?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:52:11] Not yet, not yet. No not yet. I was just purely on stage and I was just doing that. I' was just trying to not even think about that. About my brother's murder and stuff like that you know, because I just had to you know, have a different state of mind. So you, that's when I sang a little bit. But when I did transfer from Doctor Spoon to the Rhythm Units to the Soul Prophets, which was with my little brothers Solomon and Sebastian and you know, a couple other guys. I started you know, I write music and I wrote songs and we would do all the original songs and I would be on stage and it was great and fine.\n[00:52:52] But I was just slowly like sinking into myself because of what happened. So I got into drugs and onto crack cocaine. For probably a strong year and a half. Yeah. And so that kind of was my downfall.\nDavid Woodward: [00:53:14] And late 90s, early 2000s, no?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:53:18] Yea late 90s early 2000s, yes.\nDavid Woodward: [00:53:21] And the culture at that time I mean, that was sort of at the tail end of the crack epidemic I would think?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:53:30] Yeah of the big time but it was still there for sure.\nDavid Woodward: [00:53:36] And coming up out of the Twin Cities?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:53:38] I don't know it was just, you know, I don't know, I had to escape you know, all the trauma that you know, I was dealt and that was my point.\n[00:53:51] But that was my choice and that was my poison. And so I don't know, I had like a divine intervention. I remember I was at my mother's house and I was just in addict, you know I was an addict and I got on my hands and knees and I said God give me something tangible that I can touch to get off these feelings and things of that nature. And it was like a lightning bolt went to my body. It was like a tangible one. I mean it was like I got a lightning bolt through ... something I could feel. And then it lasted for like three, four seconds and then I had no cravings, no nothing. I had like a thousand dollars of crack cocaine in my pocket, I flushed it down the toilet walked down to the treatment center and they wouldn't let me in because it didn't look like I was high or having withdrawals. And then I went you know, two weeks you know, sober and then I put myself in the treatment because I wanted to acquire the tools to kind of stay sober if that.. the feeling in me was gone. But you know it never left so. But when I got that don't you know it was like a strong...\n[00:54:51] It wasn't really a voice. But you know, you know like something told me you got work to do. So it's time to get to work, yea so.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:55:00] And so what work did you then commence in doing.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:55:03] Well slowly, well. I went...after the treatment I got out, so I had to get my own place and stuff like that but I start going back to school. I went to LSC for a little bit. Didn't like LSC for some reason, I just didn't like it. And then I transferred to Fond du Lac and I got my double AS in Human Services from there. And then I went to UWS for a little bit. Didn't like it over there. Then then transferred to St. Scholastica and that's where I got my bachelor's in organizational behavior.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:55:41] And that was in 2010?\nStefan Witherspoon: [00:55:42] That was in 2010 yes, then ah...\n[00:55:48] And so, and then I just started you know, I mean, I did an internship because when I went to Fond du Lac I did a drug use and abuse class because I wanted to become a counselor so I have all those credits and all the practicum hours. All I need to do is take the test to be licensed. [00:56:06] But you know, I wanted to get back into that so I did my internship at Minnesota Adult and Teen Challenge in the outpatient you know. So below 25s and counseled and all that stuff you know.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [00:56:20] That's wonderful, and so is that sort of the beginning of your community activism? Your role in engaging the youth.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:56:27] Well yeah, I mean you know, I think that you know, I was just, well you know, we were born into service. The whole family was so and I mean, even when I was singing the blues you know, I had those Christmas concerts to get food for the food shelf and all that stuff. So it was in my heart.\n[00:56:42] But when the job of the...you know The Juvenile Detention Alternatives Initiative J.D.A.I came about you know that was a great opportunity for me because it was for the disproportion of kids of color who were detained and like a pipeline to prison you know. So that's back in 2011, 2012. You know. With the indigenous as well. I think the rate was 70 percent indigenous and African-American who were locked up there. It's 70 percent and four years it's down to 35 to 40 percent. So it is good work, yea. But you know we need to connect our kids to the culture. A lot of our kids here, especially kids of color, they don't know their culture. They have nowhere to go. They don't know an ounce of the good hearted stuff that you know their ancestors have done with their blood sweat and tears and they don't even know a bit of it. They might know some you know, Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks, there's a million more people.\n[00:57:54] There's a million more people.\n[00:57:55] And so we have a generation, two generations that are lost, that are lost so you know, so that's why I was like man, we have to do better and we have to make sure that our kids know who they are.\nDavid Woodward: [00:58:08] And let me ask you a question a little bit about, going back to schooling.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:58:12] Sure.\nDavid Woodward: [00:58:14] In some other interviews and some research that we've done we see a lot of times like guidance counselors and that, you were talking about the biases and the incarceration rates. There's also biases in the schools.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:58:29] Sure.\nDavid Woodward: [00:58:29] In terms of where they lead students and what their expectations are. Did you have any experience with that in the Duluth school district that you felt had something to do with you being African-American or what have you that you can remember?\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:58:44] It was so interesting. I think growing up you know, like I said you know, my family's from here so you knew a lot of people but we attached to certain people, teachers and stuff like that you know, who want to see us do well. I mean, you know, those are a few people for me you know, like I said you know, June Perry was one of them. I know. Mr. Wander who is the head of the teachers union right now, I think, you know, he was one of them in high school I think and a few other people, coaches, you know who grab you by your shirt and say, \"get your butt to class, what are you doing, Let's go, be quiet, sit down, relax.\" You know that type of stuff it was you know, it was more in your face. They wanted you to do well and they're going to make sure that if you’re in front of them you're going to do well.\nDavid Woodward: [00:59:37] Reel you in a bit.\nStephan Witherspoon: [00:59:37] Yeah. And so and so you know, we're missing that and I don't know why we're missing that. I don't know. It's so interesting. I think that I don't know what changed. I mean, I mean the school system. You know we don't celebrate everybody's culture you know, we shouldn't have you know, certain months for people to celebrate, we should celebrate everybody all the time, to celebrate everybody all the time. And I think that's wrong with our society today is that you know, we just don't you know, we don't get a chance to meet each other, to eat with each other, and sit down with each other, and to cry with each other, and laugh with each other, and to play with each other, because everybody will realize that we're pretty much alike.\n[01:00:30] And so. That's why I got into it and I think I learned that from my parents and how my father treated people. You know I mean that's what we were brought up with. I mean you know, so I mean you know, that's why you know so.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [01:00:49] Yeah I can definitely see that when you're born into a family that's so involved and knows a lot of people it would be hard to kind of do anything else outside of that. Did your father, like in thinking about you know African-American heritage, did your father or any community members or you remember anything of the 1920 lynching? Was it discussed at all?\nStephan Witherspoon: [01:01:14] Well I'll tell you what you know.\nRachel Phelps Horton: [01:01:16] Because that's a huge part of Afro-heritage here.\nStephan Witherspoon: [01:01:20] Yeah. You know my father was born in 1914.\nStefan Witherspoon: [01:01:22] So you know he told us a lot about just you know the natural order of things you know, of how they went, like back in Harlem where it was great then and you know even though it was segregated it was prominent. It was prominent and there were industries and you know people were taking care of themselves and their families were. But when they found the heroin and shut down the industries and stuff like it started destroying families and brought in the officers and all that stuff. So yeah I mean you know just the natural progression of whoever wanted us to destroy ourselves.",
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