{ "id": "p16022coll97:118", "object": "https://cdm16022.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getthumbnail/collection/p16022coll97/id/118", "set_spec": "p16022coll97", "collection_name": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "collection_name_s": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "collection_description": "
The Tretter Transgender Oral History Project (TTOHP) collects, preserves, and makes accessible oral histories of gender transgression, especially as theyintersect with race, age, sexuality, citizenship, class, and ability. The project seeks to document the power and vision of trans movements for justice through the stories of activists working to imagine another world.
\n\nThe first phase of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project was led by poet and activist Andrea Jenkins—who became the first Black transgender woman to serve in office in the US after she was elected, in 2017, to the Minneapolis City Council. This phase of the project sought to document the life stories and experiences of transgender and gender non-conforming people, with a focus on people living in the upper Midwest as well as those often excluded from the historical record, including trans people of color and trans elders.
\n\nThe second phase of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project is led by trans studies scholar Myrl Beam. This phase of work seeks to document histories of trans activist movements and politics in the US, and is grounded in the belief that trans movements for justice are about more than rights: they are about survival, and about creating a new, more fabulous, more livable, and more expansive world––one not structured by racialized gender norms. The oral histories collected during this phase document the transformative power of trans movements, and the stories of trans activists who are building them.
\n\nFor more about the project, visit: https://www.lib.umn.edu/tretter/transgender-oral-history-project.
", "title": "Interview with Selena Meza", "title_s": "Interview with Selena Meza", "title_t": "Interview with Selena Meza", "title_search": "Interview with Selena Meza", "title_sort": "interviewwithselenameza", "description": "Selena Meza is a Mexican-American trans femme from Nekoosa, Wisconsin. In this oral history interview, she discusses her upbringing in rural Wisconsin, her college experience and career, and her thoughts on feminist and trans politics. Specifically, Meza tells of her interest in the arts and work as an illustrator at a design firm, her experiences learning about feminist and LGBTQ politics at college and joining groups for LGBTQ students, and her experiences of dating as a trans femme. Finally, she shares her thoughts on the future of trans politics and generational shifts in understanding.", "date_created": [ "2017-11-19" ], "date_created_ss": [ "2017-11-19" ], "date_created_sort": "2017", "creator": [ "Meza, Selena" ], "creator_ss": [ "Meza, Selena" ], "creator_sort": "mezaselena", "contributor": [ "Jenkins, Andrea (Interviewer)" ], "contributor_ss": [ "Jenkins, Andrea (Interviewer)" ], "notes": "Forms part of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project, Phase 1.", "types": [ "Moving Image" ], "format": [ "Oral histories | http://vocab.getty.edu/aat/300202595" ], "format_name": [ "Oral histories" ], "dimensions": "0:52:50", "subject": [ "Midwest (United States)", "Art and Creative Work", "Education", "Sex and Love", "Latinx", "Rural", "Privilege", "Harassment", "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project Phase 1" ], "subject_ss": [ "Midwest (United States)", "Art and Creative Work", "Education", "Sex and Love", "Latinx", "Rural", "Privilege", "Harassment", "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project Phase 1" ], "language": [ "English" ], "city": [ "Minneapolis" ], "state": [ "Minnesota" ], "country": [ "United States" ], "continent": [ "North America" ], "geonames": [ "http://sws.geonames.org/5037657/" ], "parent_collection": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "parent_collection_name": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "contributing_organization": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contributing_organization_name": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contributing_organization_name_s": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contact_information": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies. 111 Elmer L. Andersen Library, 222 - 21st Avenue South, Minneapolis, MN 55455; https://www.lib.umn.edu/tretter", "fiscal_sponsor": "This project is funded through the generous support of The TAWANI Foundation, Headwaters Foundation and many individual donors.", "local_identifier": [ "tretter414_tohp107" ], "dls_identifier": [ "tretter414_tohp107" ], "rights_statement_uri": "http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-EDU/1.0/", "kaltura_audio": "1_7n1u3mdb", "kaltura_video": "1_47vtnw66", "kaltura_combo_playlist": "0_vbr7bef9", "page_count": 0, "record_type": "primary", "first_viewer_type": "kaltura_combo_playlist", "viewer_type": "kaltura_combo_playlist", "attachment": "92.pdf", "attachment_format": "pdf", "document_type": "item", "featured_collection_order": 999, "date_added": "2018-09-24T00:00:00Z", "date_added_sort": "2018-09-24T00:00:00Z", "date_modified": "2020-05-22T00:00:00Z", "transcription": "Selena Meza\nNarrator\nAndrea Jenkins\nInterviewer\nThe Transgender Oral History Project\nTretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nNovember 19, 2017\nThe Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story,\nwhile providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source\nmaterial about the transgender community. The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the\nUniversity of Minnesota. The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for\ncurrent and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public.\nThe Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300\nindividuals over the next three years. Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and\nexperiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality. This project will be led by\nAndrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist. Andrea brings years of experience working in\ngovernment, non-profits and LGBT organizations. If you are interested in being involved in this exciting\nproject, please contact Andrea.\nAndrea Jenkins\njenki120@umn.edu\n(612) 625-4379\n1 Andrea Jenkins -AJ\n2 Selena Meza -SM\n3\n4 AJ: So, hello. My name is Andrea Jenkins and I am the oral historian for the Transgender Oral\n5 History Project at the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota Libraries. Today is\n6 November 19, 2017. We are in Minneapolis on a Sunday afternoon and I am here today with\n7 Selena Meza.\n8 SM: Meza.\n9 AJ: Meza – all righty. So, that we have no misunderstandings, Selena, can you state your name,\n10 spell your name, state your gender as you claim it today and your gender assigned at birth and\n11 your pronouns.\n12 SM: OK. So, I am Selena Meza and you spell my name S-e-l-e-n-a and then my last name is M-e-z-a. I\n13 identify as trans femme as well and my pronouns are her/she and they/them. Yeah.\n14 AJ: Yeah.\n15 SM: Did I miss something?\n16 AJ: No, I think you covered it all, so thank you very much. So, Selena, just to kind of get your\n17 memory bank flowing, tell me about the first thing you remember in life. What’s the first thing\n18 you remember? Maybe it’s about your trans identity, but it does not have to be. If it is, it’s cool;\n19 if it’s not, it’s cool.\n20 SM: I feel like I have a memory, I don’t know if it’s a dream or a memory, but I remember when I was\n21 a two-year-old, being on a bed and there’s a picture . . . because there’s a picture of me being\n22 on the blanket, a pink floral blanket, with my brother, and I just remember that moment. I don’t\n23 know how I remember that still, but that picture just triggered that memory and I remember it.\n24 I don’t know if it’s a dream or a memory because sometimes you can’t really . . . I don’t know if\n25 it’s possible to remember that long.\n26 AJ: I don’t know, some people say it’s possible; others say it’s not. Memory is an unpredictable kind\n27 of thing, right? We don’t really fully understand it. Where did you grow up?\n28 SM: So, I’m from Chicago originally and I moved to Wisconsin when I was around five years old, so\n29 pretty much grew up most of my life and my adulthood in Wisconsin.\n30 AJ: Is that right?\n31 SM: Central Wisconsin, very not diverse.\n32 AJ: In rural?\n33 SM: Yeah, the country.\n34 AJ: Were your parents farm workers?\nSelena Meza 4\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: They migrated from Mexico and they found better jobs in Wisconsin 1 because we have so many\n2 siblings, so they needed an area where they can also provide for all of their kids and have the\n3 land to live off of. So, they’re farmers pretty much and they worked cranberry marshes, like\n4 doing the marshes over there, and dairy farms. There’s just a lot of agriculture in the country\n5 that a lot of migrant workers come. Usually they move on to the next one, but my parents\n6 ended up staying in Wisconsin. They found their own little community. It’s really random, but\n7 there’s a Latin community there, with the migrant workers, and it’s just really low key in the\n8 middle of nowhere.\n9 AJ: Really?\n10 SM: Yeah, there was even a Mexican restaurant . . . or, market, in someone’s garage because there\n11 was . . . to get groceries that are from the Mexican market.\n12 AJ: Culturally specific.\n13 SM: It would be like an hour – yeah.\n14 AJ: Wow. So, what was the name of the town?\n15 SM: Nekoosa, Wisconsin.\n16 AJ: Nekoosa. How do you spell that?\n17 SM: N-e-k-o-o-s-a. And it’s a really interesting town because it’s actually . . . in Native American it\n18 means, “swift water,” and it’s a tribe that’s Ho-Chunk Nation that has their reservation there.\n19 AJ: Yeah.\n20 SM: So, I grew a lot learning about the Native American culture, or the Ho-Chunk culture, and their\n21 struggle as well. And, how they have their own economy and how they started their own things\n22 as well, which is really cool, because it’s in the middle of nowhere and their kind of culture is\n23 there still as well. If you find it, you’ll find it.\n24 AJ: Really? Wow. Yeah, they have casinos, right?\n25 SM: Yeah, they have five different casinos – like Wisconsin Dells, Madison, and Nekoosa, Black River\n26 Falls . . . yeah, that’s how they kind of started their economy through Indian gaming.\n27 AJ: Sure. You identify as Mexican-American?\n28 SM: Yes, Mexican-American.\n29 AJ: How many siblings?\n30 SM: I have five brothers and six sisters.\n31 AJ: Oh, boy – yeah, that’s a pretty big family.\n32 SM: Yeah, very traditional . . . I grew up very traditional Mexican-American family. Catholic, my\n33 parents were. Yeah, just having a lot of siblings. Usually . . . my parents never said it, but when I\n34 was reading through Mexican-American culture, a lot of them did have a lot of kids because they\nSelena Meza 5\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\ncan help with the land and that’s pretty much what my parents have been doing. 1 They raised us\n2 to help them garden and harvest and live off our land.\n3 AJ: Yeah. So, do you still have a lot of brothers and sisters . . . is your family still there in Nekoosa?\n4 SM: No, my family . . . some of them are in Chicago, Madison, and my parents are the ones that are\n5 in Nekoosa, and another sibling. So, most of them are in Chicago and Madison.\n6 AJ: Wow. So, what was it like growing up in the middle of Wisconsin as a Mexican-American? I\n7 mean, were you bullied in school? Was your gender identity a challenge for you at that time?\n8 SM: Yeah, I think growing up in a small town you don’t really have many resources. My school didn’t\n9 really educate you on other cultures.\n10 AJ: Right.\n11 SM: It was mostly based on the regular white American history that we learn. We didn’t have any\n12 LGBTQ clubs. I didn’t know what LGBTQ meant until I came to college and I learned about it.\n13 But yeah, a lot of the kids would be kind of . . . they would single you out because you were the\n14 only other brown kid in school. Back in the day, I was kind of afraid to identify as anything else,\n15 so I would try to blend in . . . just blending in is kind of what helped me get out of there. So, I\n16 blended in until I could leave the town and then once I came to college is when I started taking\n17 Women and Gender Studies class and started learning more about sexuality and gender identity.\n18 That’s when I . . . I knew I was trans, but I didn’t confirm it until I knew more about the history of\n19 trans.\n20 AJ: So, in school and everything, you really tried to conform and . . .?\n21 SM: Yeah, I think that’s what kind of . . . kind of made my days go by easier.\n22 AJ: Yeah, it was safety, take care of yourself.\n23 SM: Yeah, I was just conforming and just quiet, kind of, until I could reach when I wanted to leave.\n24 AJ: Where did you go to college?\n25 SM: So, I went to college at the University of Wisconsin-Stout, which is an hour and a half from\n26 Minneapolis. It’s close to Eau Claire. They had a really awesome art program there that I was\n27 accepted to.\n28 AJ: You’re an artist?\n29 SM: I was originally an artist and then I switched majors during that time in college. So, I went to\n30 school for industrial design, which is more designing products like a water bottle. I originally\n31 wanted to design cars.\n32 AJ: Wow.\n33 SM: I just always liked sketching cars and that’s all I would sketch, so that’s what I was hoping I could\n34 do. During college, I just ended up taking a pair of classes to learn how to sew and I really ended\n35 up liking how to develop a pattern and then cutting the fabric and making everything on your\nSelena Meza 6\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nown. Industrial design was kind of concept work, it wasn’t really doing 1 it – you were just\n2 sketching and hopefully . . .\n3 AJ: Someday it may materialize but there’s no full pathway to it.\n4 SM: Yeah, and with fashion you can definitely design it, cut it, sew it and then fit it right and that’s\n5 what I liked about it is that I can have a product made entirely by myself.\n6 AJ: Wow. And have it.\n7 SM: Yeah, and have it and have it be functional as well.\n8 AJ: Wow, that’s pretty incredible. Is that the work you do now?\n9 SM: Yeah, right now I’m doing more of the illustrations for the company, so I do fashion illustrations\n10 that get sent to China for vendors when they’re making . . . like a basic t-shirt, they need\n11 illustrated with details with the stitching and the hem that it’s going to have and all of that. And\n12 it’s more technical design, so it’s working with the vendors and having good communication\n13 with them and fitting clothes too.\n14 AJ: So, are you out as trans at your work?\n15 SM: Yeah, at work . . . yeah, it’s a small company and I started working there as a temp in August.\n16 That was pretty much when I decided to change my name because I was still . . . I was still on the\n17 edge of, “Do I really want to change my name?” It’s just something . . . for me, I grew up\n18 knowing this name, I talked to my mom about it and she just thought it was very important.\n19 But, for me, it was just something that was still kind of . . . it wasn’t for me. So, I had to change\n20 my name and I’m still trying to work with my work to see if we can . . . I’m just a freelance\n21 designer there so I’m not on their team, so I just would like when they hire me on their team, I\n22 can talk to them about my current name. So, I’m out. I dress exactly how I’m dressed now at\n23 work and they accept it. They haven’t questioned it at all, it’s been really good.\n24 AJ: Do they refer to you as she or . . .?\n25 SM: Yeah, they refer to me as she. I work with all girls too. It’s a really young group too, it’s like 10\n26 other girls that I work with. It’s a small company.\n27 AJ: So, they’re all accepting.\n28 SM: Yeah, accepting . . . liberal, I think. It seems like it.\n29 AJ: So, you just came out?\n30 SM: Yeah, I guess it would be just coming out, but I’ve been kind of femme throughout my entire life\n31 but just having a new name is kind of what confirms my femininity.\n32 AJ: So, what was it like in college? You said you got to college and you started to take Women and\n33 Gender Studies courses and explore gender identity a little bit more. Were people supportive,\n34 accepting? I mean, Stout is a pretty small Midwestern school.\nSelena Meza 7\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: Yeah, that’s very true. Stout is a very small school, but it’s kind of a weird 1 school because many\n2 students are from Minneapolis, Minnesota area so it’s kind of a clash with country folks with city\n3 folks.\n4 AJ: Is that right? OK.\n5 SM: Yeah, so it’s fairly interesting the kids that go there, but it’s not as diverse as you would think it\n6 would be. It’s not a diverse school at all. So, it was still pretty hard going there and just seeing\n7 people that you can’t really relate to . . . yeah, you can’t really relate to them so it was just . . .\n8 for me, what I was focusing on was the school. Every day of the week I would just focus on\n9 schoolwork and not go out, like not have that college experience. So, I was still kind of isolated\n10 from actually exploring more of trans identity. During school, like the fashion industry at our\n11 school they kind of prepared us really hard for that, so a lot of the assignments that we had we\n12 would do all-nighters trying to sew and design at the same time and have our portfolio ready for\n13 your professors.\n14 AJ: So, it sounds like Project Runway, but every day.\n15 SM: Yeah, that’s how they made . . . the school, they kind of did too much work on their students,\n16 because now that I have a job it’s not like that at all. It’s not . . .\n17 AJ: Design on demand and . . .\n18 SM: They could have let us enjoy more of our time instead of having these really critical deadlines for\n19 projects to be due. But yeah, I started doing Women and Gender Studies class when I was\n20 changing my major, which was my sophomore year in college. I was just exploring different\n21 majors and seeing what I liked. I ended up taking Women and Gender Studies classes and\n22 Lifespan to Sexuality because that’s just what interested me and I had credits that I had to fulfill.\n23 I think that’s what really changed me was being open to the idea of just that you can evolve\n24 throughout your time and just reading bell hooks also was really awesome.\n25 AJ: Yeah, how so?\n26 SM: I didn’t ever hear about bell hooks until I went to college and Ain’t I a Woman was one of her\n27 books that was just like a lot of really awesome things that . . .\n28 AJ: Ain’t I a Woman?\n29 SM: Yeah, that one is a really good one. And after that I just started obsessing over bell hooks.\n30 AJ: Oh, wow - yeah, she’s pretty obsessive worthy.\n31 SM: Yeah, she’s really radical and I love how she’s really a critical thinker as well. So, I think those\n32 were kind of my escapes during college as well – just looking at talks that she would have at\n33 colleges.\n34 AJ: So, you became a feminist.\n35 SM: Yeah, I guess.\nSelena Meza 8\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAJ: I mean bell hooks is pretty much a Black feminist as it comes. Yeah. So, when 1 is the first time\n2 you ever met a trans person?\n3 SM: The first time I ever met a trans person . . . the first time I actually ever seen a trans person was\n4 probably when I was like 10 years old and I was . . . my brother would do a paper route, so he\n5 would do a newspaper route. I remember there was a trans person that was also doing the\n6 paper route. He would kind of make fun of her, because back in the day that was just something\n7 that you never saw.\n8 AJ: Right.\n9 SM: It was bizarre and something that you would pick at and that’s what my brother was doing. I\n10 just remember . . . I remember that person because they would be there all the time and dress\n11 fabulous just doing the paper route.\n12 AJ: Oh, wow. That’s awesome.\n13 SM: Yeah.\n14 AJ: Did you ever meet them?\n15 SM: No, I didn’t get to meet them, I just observed. But, actually meeting a trans person was\n16 probably in college.\n17 AJ: Really?\n18 SM: Yeah, and not very many trans people at my college either. But, it was so funny because my\n19 freshman year, me and my roommate, we were both identifying, at the time, as just queer and I\n20 really didn’t know exactly what LGBTQ meant until my roommate was kind of telling me about\n21 it.\n22 AJ: Right.\n23 SM: That’s when I started joining the LGBTQ groups.\n24 AJ: OK, so you did get involved in those groups.\n25 SM: Yeah, they have a really good program there, the Qube, is where you can just go and connect\n26 with other LGBTQ students. That’s when I kind of started exploring more about sexual identity\n27 as well.\n28 AJ: And you called it the Cube, C-u-b-e.\n29 SM: It’s the Qube, Q-u-b-e.\n30 AJ: Q-u-b-e. OK.\n31 SM: Yes, the Qube.\n32 AJ: I’m glad I asked. Wow. So, how do you identify around your sexual orientation?\nSelena Meza 9\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: I see myself as just open-minded. Sometimes I find females, or a feminine 1 person, very\n2 attractive and I’m open to that. I think that’s another thing, just being open-minded towards\n3 everything.\n4 AJ: So, you date guys as well then?\n5 SM: Yes, I date guys as well.\n6 AJ: Or, male-identified people.\n7 SM: Yes. Anyone that interests me I would date, I think.\n8 AJ: Sure. So, to the extent that you feel comfortable, Selena, have you undergone any medical\n9 interventions in your gender journey? Or, do you plan to?\n10 SM: Right now, I’m still in process. I haven’t actually seeked any medical or treatments. I’ve been\n11 trying to, kind of – after college I wanted to but just with health care, it’s kind of hard to even try\n12 to think you could afford to do that kind of work. So, because right now as a freelance designer,\n13 I don’t get the benefits like a health care provider, work doesn’t provide that for me.\n14 AJ: Right.\n15 SM: So, now what I do is just I drink a lot of soy milk.\n16 AJ: Hey, yeah.\n17 SM: I was thinking about this too because I’m not sure in the future what I want to do with my body.\n18 I think it’s something that changes as you grow as well.\n19 AJ: Yeah, I would agree.\n20 SM: I think right now I’m content with what I have and I’m happy. I do think about breasts because\n21 this is something that is just . . . in society, women have breasts and that’s what society pictures\n22 a woman to be. That’s another thing that I struggle with is like the image of womanhood and\n23 what does it mean and do you have to conform to that image.\n24 AJ: Right. What do you think?\n25 SM: I don’t think you do. I think that a person that is going to find you attractive is going to find you\n26 attractive and they should be open to what you have to provide for them.\n27 AJ: Yeah, the woman that you are, not the perception of what a woman is.\n28 SM: Yes, definitely. Yes, so we all are different.\n29 AJ: Wow. Well, thank you for your honesty. There are clinics that are sliding scale to free that help\n30 people in their transition too. So, those are some options.\n31 SM: I’ve been looking at Planned Parenthood. It still says that it’s a cost there, but I’m not sure of\n32 their expense, how expensive it is. I just have to actually get in there and do an appointment.\n33 AJ: Well, I know that they’re starting up a brand new trans-specific program and so there might be\n34 some opportunities.\nSelena Meza 10\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 SM: Yeah.\n2 AJ: So, have you found that since you’ve been sort of presenting and identifying more feminine,\n3 femme, have you experienced any challenges like finding employment, accessing various\n4 institutions like the medical industry or police interactions and that kind of stuff?\n5 SM: Definitely identifying more as femme, you do get more issues than otherwise like trying to find\n6 employment. When I first moved to Minneapolis, I didn’t have employment so I was staying\n7 with one of my roommates at the time and she kind of convinced me to move here. As I was\n8 doing interviews, I would dress more kind of unisex – pull my hair back, no make-up, and just\n9 trying to get a job. And that kind of still didn’t work. I had this job that I totally was qualified for\n10 and I really wanted it as well, and I had connections in the company, but they ended up picking\n11 someone over me because of experience. And then I looked at LinkedIn at the person that they\n12 hired and they did not have any experience, but that’s what they told me over the phone. I\n13 think that was another thing, that people are not really comfortable, still, with being . . . a\n14 femme-spirit being in their presence in the Midwest. I don’t know, I still . . . when I walk into a\n15 white room, I still feel like everyone is looking at me and they’re trying to figure out . . .\n16 AJ: It’s because you’re beautiful.\n17 SM: I think, also, because they’re trying to figure out what my anatomy is as well. Yeah, it’s\n18 something that’s interesting and that I notice more too. Also, when I put make-up on and stuff,\n19 I do get more attention from guys and it’s not attention that I want from them. When I end up\n20 talking with them and telling them that I’m trans, they just . . . they do not know how to react.\n21 AJ: Really.\n22 SM: Sometimes, it’s kind of rude as well, the interactions with them. When I’m out and they want to\n23 take me home with them and I’m like, “I’m not sure if you’re going to be interested in this or\n24 not.” That’s how I ended up talking to one guy and he kind of came out with a backhanded\n25 comment and was like, “Oh, I wish I could have a baby with you.” And I was just like, “That’s\n26 really insensitive to say to a trans person – we can’t have kids like that.”\n27 AJ: Right, wow. This was after you guys . . . had you guys been dating?\n28 SM: We had just met that one night. No, I think because I’m trans, I think that he totally thought\n29 that respect . . . like he didn’t have to respect what he was saying to me or think about what he\n30 was saying. Because after that, after I told him I was trans, he changed . . . his respect kind of\n31 changed.\n32 AJ: Went down?\n33 SM: Yeah, it went down. Because, when they’re trying to get your attention they’re like . . .\n34 AJ: Right, like being all extra nice and gentlemanly.\n35 SM: And then when you tell them your honesty, then that’s not what they want to hear, I guess.\n36 AJ: Yeah. So, how do you approach that when you’re meeting someone? Are you open right\n37 upfront?\nSelena Meza 11\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: Yeah, usually . . . unless I’m trying to hook-up, then yes, I’m open about it. But 1 if I’m not trying\n2 to hook-up, I don’t have to tell you anything.\n3 AJ: Right, exactly.\n4 SM: I’m a person.\n5 AJ: Yeah.\n6 SM: So, yeah, recently I just started dating this guy that’s kind of really been respectful and really\n7 open to me being trans.\n8 AJ: Sure.\n9 SM: And, just started to talk about it with him and kind of teaching him about what trans means\n10 instead of what they think it means or what they learn from the porn industry what trans\n11 means.\n12 AJ: Yeah, which is problematic.\n13 SM: Yeah, it’s super problematic.\n14 AJ: Yeah.\n15 SM: The terms that they use as well is not . . .\n16 AJ: Like what kind of terms?\n17 SM: They use shemale or tranny. “I’ve never been with a tranny before.” “OK, that’s not how I\n18 identify.”\n19 AJ: “And, you won’t be with one now because I’m not a tranny.” Oh, man.\n20 SM: I think it’s just those type of things that they just learn from . . . vulgar words like that from the\n21 internet, I guess, and not being educated in school about different gender identities, I guess.\n22 AJ: Yeah, well, it’s still new information for a lot of people.\n23 SM: Yeah, it’s very new information still.\n24 AJ: Even though trans people have been on the planet in every culture, including Mexican culture.\n25 SM: Yeah, I’ve learned about that too.\n26 AJ: For thousands and thousands of years, since the beginning of humanity. So, you were involved\n27 in queer organizations in college?\n28 SM: At Stout, yes.\n29 AJ: When did you graduate?\n30 SM: So, I graduated in December 2016.\n31 AJ: OK, so less than a year.\nSelena Meza 12\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: Yeah, 1 it’s less than a year.\n2 AJ: And you’re working in your industry, that’s pretty cool.\n3 SM: Yeah, I’m really happy. I just had a really good connection to that company and that’s how I . . . I\n4 was fortunate enough to have that connection, otherwise I think you can’t get a job if you don’t\n5 have a connection.\n6 AJ: It’s . . . I mean, the best way to get a job is to know somebody – yeah. You can get jobs other\n7 ways, but it’s tough – it takes time. Even when you know somebody it takes time. Because still,\n8 at this point, like you said, you’re like a consultant.\n9 SM: Yeah, I do freelance . . .\n10 AJ: Contract.\n11 SM: Contract, yeah. They’re kind of telling me that I’m going to be on full-time and stuff, but I think\n12 it’s on their terms so I’m still looking for a different position where I have a company that wants\n13 me there and puts me on their full-time on their terms right away. I’ve been there since August\n14 and they’ve been telling me that, “Oh, yeah, we’re going to put you on full-time.” And I’m like,\n15 “Yeah, when is that going to happen?”\n16 AJ: It seems like if you’re doing design work for Target, they might be interested. They are probably\n17 one of the best employers for trans people, at least in this area anyway.\n18 SM: Yeah, I did see that. They have really awesome positions for design work, but most of the\n19 positions you need experience.\n20 AJ: Five years of experience.\n21 SM: Yeah, that’s like their minimum, which is crazy. But, I think that starting out now will help me in\n22 the future too.\n23 AJ: I think sometimes those requirements are just to kind of keep people from applying, but if they\n24 find somebody talented with one year of experience, they’re going to go for it if it’s going to be\n25 a good fit.\n26 SM: Yeah, I definitely would like to work at Target.\n27 AJ: I would encourage you to apply.\n28 SM: Thank you. I was also thinking about my future here in Minneapolis, now that I have time during\n29 the nights and weekends, I want to use it just better myself. I was thinking about the U of M\n30 and how they have programs, as well. I would like to learn more . . . I still want to learn more. I\n31 think I would like to apply for a masters at the U of M. I’m not sure exactly what program I want\n32 – like if I want to go into the fashion industry or if I want to learn more about gender identity\n33 and Chicano Studies. I think they have a Chicano Studies there as well.\n34 AJ: Yeah, they do. I know they do.\nSelena Meza 13\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: So, I just have . . . I’m still trying to figure out when to apply for that because 1 I know it’s a\n2 process to apply for that.\n3 AJ: So, Selena, if you don’t mind me asking, how old are you?\n4 SM: I’m 25.\n5 AJ: You’re 25. Wow, so young . . . just got out of college, you’re just coming out. What is life feeling\n6 like for you right now?\n7 SM: It’s actually really good right now – just coming to a new city, being a new girl. I think that’s\n8 what has been really helping me – just being free. I feel really free.\n9 AJ: Really?\n10 SM: Yeah.\n11 AJ: Are you out to your parents?\n12 SM: Yes, I am. My dad doesn’t really care, we don’t really have a relationship. But my mom and me\n13 have a really good relationship. I think that’s the only reason that I’m able to be out is because\n14 my mom . . . she’s just so caring and loving.\n15 AJ: Really? Are your parents still together?\n16 SM: Yes, they are.\n17 AJ: What about your siblings?\n18 SM: Yes, they all know.\n19 AJ: They all know.\n20 SM: Yeah, they’re all really cool too.\n21 AJ: Really? No one has disowned you?\n22 SM: No, I haven’t . . . I’ve been just so fortunate.\n23 AJ: And, I don’t want that to happen, I’m just asking because you said you were from a traditional\n24 Mexican family, Catholic, 12 kids. There’s a lot of machismo in Mexican culture and a lot of\n25 expectations on boys in the family to be these macho men. So, you know, I’m bordering on\n26 stereotyping a little bit, but I think it’s somewhat of a reality.\n27 SM: That’s true. That’s exactly how my dad is, he’s kind of a machista and I think that’s what . . . it’s\n28 just really hard for him to understand anything with trans identity or even . . . when I first came\n29 out as gay, it was super hard for everybody, and now the second time I came out, it’s easier for\n30 my siblings . . . they knew, they already knew because I was already femme.\n31 AJ: Right.\n32 SM: I think that my family didn’t disown me because they’ve been through crazier things than this.\n33 Living in Chicago was just way crazier than just having a kid that’s identifying as trans. I think my\nSelena Meza 14\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nbrothers are all really cool too because they’re just . . . they don’t follow 1 the book either, they\n2 do whatever they want.\n3 AJ: Really, OK.\n4 SM: I think just having a family that also just cares for each other really helped, we all just really\n5 cared for each other since we were kids. We’ve all been really connected and learned how to\n6 share with each other. I think that’s being part of a big family, just learning how to share and\n7 care for each other.\n8 AJ: Wow. So, all the brothers, all the sisters, are just super cool. Do you have a lot of nieces and\n9 nephews already?\n10 SM: Yeah, it’s awesome. I have 16 nieces and nephews already.\n11 AJ: Is that right? Because you’re 25, so I would suspect you’re pretty low in the family.\n12 SM: Yeah, I’m the third youngest. I have two younger sisters. I think education helped me help my\n13 family kind of learn . . . or teach them about gender identity and sexuality and how it’s not the\n14 same. My brothers thought it was the same thing and . . .\n15 AJ: You’re just gay and gay people like to wear dresses or whatever.\n16 SM: That’s exactly what they thought. I was like, “It’s a little bit more complex than that.” But, I\n17 think that they’re all really . . . they all pretty much knew since I was a kid because they would\n18 catch me dressing up sometimes.\n19 AJ: Oh, wow – OK. Did they bully you at all?\n20 SM: Yeah, the first time it was a really traumatic time when I got caught dressing up.\n21 AJ: Oh, wow.\n22 SM: I think I was like nine. It was me and my cousin actually and I was dressing him up too. We were\n23 doing each other’s make-up. It’s so funny because now he’s this really masculine boy.\n24 AJ: Oh, really? He’s not trans, right?\n25 SM: He’s not trans. It was just us being kids too.\n26 AJ: Yeah, it’s just a kid thing but then, you know, some people, like you or I, it’s real. It is a thing.\n27 SM: Yeah, and I think that that is part of my . . . another thought, that was my expressing myself at\n28 that time, as a child, being feminine when my parents and everybody was gone.\n29 AJ: Right.\n30 SM: And, I had the chance to put my sister’s make-up and clothes on. They came back and I was so\n31 surprised, and then they kind of . . . I don’t know, I just remember them taking pictures of me\n32 because . . . to like shame me almost. It was my older sister that did that and I remember it was\n33 just more like a shameful thing to do. But, now that I think about it, it was funny for me\nSelena Meza 15\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nbecause, at the time, it was just like, “Oh, my God – I was wearing a dress and 1 putting on make-2\nup and I was nine.”\n3 AJ: Yikes – and they caught you. Did they try to beat you up?\n4 SM: No, it wasn’t like beating up. It was . . .\n5 AJ: Calling you names, picking on you?\n6 SM: It was like that. It was still . . . it was still a type of verbal harassment, I guess.\n7 AJ: But in school, when you were in grade school, nobody could really . . .?\n8 SM: No, I was just trying to blend in with all the kids.\n9 AJ: Wow. But they knew you were a Mexican, though, right?\n10 SM: Yes, definitely, they knew I was Mexican. Yeah, we would always get into fights and stuff. On\n11 the bus, it was the most dramatic bus rides ever. It was in the middle of the country, so our bus\n12 rides would be like 45 minutes long sometimes.\n13 AJ: Right, so you’ve got a long time to be sitting on a bus with these kids.\n14 SM: The things that would happen on the bus would be like our bus driver would tell us that we can’t\n15 speak Spanish to all the Mexican kids that would be on the bus and from that . . . it kind of built\n16 to separation between the white kids and the Mexican kids that were there. There would\n17 always be fights on the bus because of it. A lot of the Mexican kids would sit in the back\n18 because we would speak Spanish and the bus driver wouldn’t be able to tell us anything.\n19 AJ: Couldn’t hear it, yeah.\n20 SM: And that’s why we would be in the back and then just . . . I remember always having spitball\n21 fights and stuff like that, and then just actually having . . . my sister actually got into a physical\n22 fight with this other person that was on the bus, and it was just not good at all. It was always\n23 the Mexicans getting in trouble and never the white kids.\n24 AJ: Wow.\n25 SM: Yeah, it was never the Mexican kids . . . sometimes Mexicans started it, but it was always us\n26 getting punished for it.\n27 AJ: Wow. So, what do you think is the relationship between the gay, the lesbian, the bisexual\n28 community and the trans community?\n29 SM: I think that our relationship is just also like being an other, being referred to as an other type of\n30 person. I think that also you can stem from being gay or intersect, I guess, they intersect as well.\n31 If you’re trans and you identify gay, that you’re the same type of feminine person, then you can\n32 be lesbian, I guess. Yeah, I think that they intersect as well. Also, for me, when I first identified\n33 as gay, I still have that history behind me, so I was identified as gay throughout this year and\n34 that’s part of my history. I’m not embarrassed to say that I was gay.\n35 AJ: No, I wrote down as your identities: gay, trans, femme, queer.\nSelena Meza 16\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: Yeah, I think that it intersects for me a lot just because of my history and 1 also education. I didn’t\n2 realize I was trans because I always thought I was gay.\n3 AJ: Right, but it was more than just being gay. Wow. So, you think they should be together?\n4 SM: I think they can be together, but also . . . they can be together, but they don’t have to be. I think\n5 that trans people also face things that gay people don’t face. I don’t think they would be able to\n6 understand it because they can’t experience the trans issues that happen to trans people.\n7 AJ: Right.\n8 SM: But, I still think that they’re still a family.\n9 AJ: That’s a good way to put it. Yeah. Have you ever worked with or for or volunteered for any\n10 LGBT or trans organizations?\n11 SM: No, I haven’t. I would love to start volunteering my time to be something for the trans\n12 community, or get involved in the trans community. I just never had another trans friend or\n13 anything. The first trans friend I had was Liv when I moved here.\n14 AJ: Is that right? Liv Mickla . . .?\n15 SM: It’s with an H . . . Hickley or something like that.\n16 AJ: OK, Liv – we’re sorry we’re butchering your name, dear. We love you.\n17 SM: But she was introduced to me by my roommate and then that’s when I was just like, “Oh, my\n18 gosh, finally, another trans person that I can talk to.”\n19 AJ: So, your roommates are all cis?\n20 SM: Yes, they’re all cis. We all went to college together.\n21 AJ: Are they queer? Straight identified?\n22 SM: I think they’re queer. Yeah, one of them identifies as queer and then the other ones are just\n23 straight.\n24 AJ: But, they’re cool with you?\n25 SM: They’re super cool – yeah, they’re really cool. We all went to college together and they’ve seen\n26 me transition throughout the years.\n27 AJ: I’m just going to go out on a limb and say they’re probably all white.\n28 SM: No, actually . . . most of them are white . . . I have this one roommate, she’s so cool. She’s from\n29 China and she was an international student at Stout and then we just kept the relationship\n30 together for the longest time. She went back to China for a bit because her visa was expired and\n31 she just renewed it. But, I’m happy that I have one that’s not white at least. Sometimes we do\n32 talk about how it is to live with . . . they’re pretty much privileged white girls that I live with. It’s\n33 kind of crazy to see how privileged it is for them – or how sometimes they don’t have to struggle\nSelena Meza 17\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nat all about money or anything else. They complain and I’m like, “Why are 1 you complaining?\n2 Why don’t you appreciate what you have?”\n3 AJ: Right. You know, people . . . when you have things, then you want more. So, it’s kind of a\n4 human condition but . . .\n5 SM: But yeah, sometimes living with the white girls, like I do have to correct them sometimes when\n6 it comes to feminism and they think about feminist . . . for example, one of them is a diehard\n7 Hillary Clinton fan and then I was talking to them about why I find that problematic, for me, to\n8 be a diehard Hillary Clinton fan because of what she did in the past of . . . just the super predator\n9 things, calling Black people super predators, and also just trying to be cool with the cool people\n10 to get the votes.\n11 AJ: Yeah.\n12 SM: And saying that she carries hot sauce in her bag.\n13 AJ: I knew you were going to say that.\n14 SM: It’s just like . . . I just could see the fakeness from Hillary that my roommates couldn’t.\n15 AJ: Right.\n16 SM: And then having to explain to them why I found that problematic for me. I think that’s another\n17 thing – they’re still white feminists and when I listen to podcasts, I listen to Janet Mock or bell\n18 hooks, and then that helps me teach them, also, about what they’re not seeing.\n19 AJ: Sure. Wow. So, what do you think the future of gender is, in your mind, Selena?\n20 SM: I think the future of gender . . . I feel like right now it’s starting to be more accepting and I think\n21 in the future kids are really not going to care about gender identity, putting labels to it I guess. I\n22 think that’s what the future is starting to be, less labels and more expression.\n23 AJ: Yeah.\n24 SM: Kids now are really cool. My nephews and nieces, when they talk to me about being trans, they\n25 just are really open-minded to it already and I like that about the youth right now, that they\n26 really seem to be open-minded to it.\n27 AJ: Sure.\n28 SM: I think that they’re not going to have as hard of a time when it comes to the future of gender\n29 identity and hopefully that’s right, where they can just be themselves and not have to put a\n30 label to it. There’s where I kind of struggle with labels is in the trans community where we have\n31 to label a lot of things. That’s also kind of conforming to cis normatives and that’s something\n32 that I struggle with because I don’t want to conform to them, to be cis normatives, the\n33 construct, because being trans you’re not going to be accepted in the society that was made for\n34 cis people – white cis people. So, I think that’s something that I was struggling with at first – just\n35 like, I don’t want to conform to just being this female, what you think a female is.\n36 AJ: Wow, no – that’s kind of the future of gender, I think.\nSelena Meza 18\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: 1 I think so too.\n2 AJ: Personal question.\n3 SM: Yes.\n4 AJ: Which restroom do you use?\n5 SM: Which restroom?\n6 AJ: Yeah.\n7 SM: I use the female restroom.\n8 AJ: The woman’s restroom.\n9 SM: Yeah.\n10 AJ: Have you ever had any problems at all?\n11 SM: No, I haven’t had any problems in the female restroom, but I do notice, like at work, when I go\n12 to the restroom, the girls wait for me to leave the restroom and then they go use the restroom.\n13 AJ: Oh, really.\n14 SM: I notice that, but they don’t think I do. I don’t know why they would be afraid to go in the\n15 restroom with me, but that’s what I’ve noticed. Yeah, I use the female restroom. When I was\n16 identifying as just gay but a lot of people thought I was a girl still, I went to the boy’s because\n17 that’s what I used to do, and then I got corrected one time. They were like, “The woman’s\n18 restroom is that way.” And then I was like - oh, wow, I really didn’t realize that I was being\n19 perceived as female at that time.\n20 AJ: Wow.\n21 SM: So, that’s kind of when I stopped using the boy’s restroom. If people were seeing me as more\n22 feminine then I probably should be . . . I don’t know, I just didn’t want to have those\n23 interactions.\n24 AJ: Yeah, in the men’s bathroom.\n25 SM: Now that I know what happens to trans people in the men’s restroom, I try to avoid men’s\n26 restrooms.\n27 AJ: Yeah, absolutely.\n28 SM: Wow.\n29 AJ: Is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you want to be sure you talk about? You\n30 mentioned that you’re in a relationship and that’s going good.\n31 SM: Not in a relationship, just dating a guy.\n32 AJ: I’m sorry.\nSelena Meza 19\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: It’s OK. It’s going 1 good though.\n2 AJ: And that’s been since you’ve moved here.\n3 SM: Yeah, since I moved here.\n4 AJ: So, you moved here in September.\n5 SM: It was in July.\n6 AJ: July. But, you found a job, you got a place to stay, you’re dating. That’s pretty cool.\n7 SM: Yeah, it’s really interesting because dating and being trans, you do have to kind of think about\n8 the guy that you’re going to date and how open they may be and . . . I don’t know, it’s just\n9 something I didn’t . . . during college I never dated or during high school I never dated until now,\n10 as being an adult.\n11 AJ: So, you never dated guys or girls?\n12 SM: No. I guess I was just more . . .\n13 AJ: Very studious, very . . .\n14 SM: Yeah, I tried to be more into that so I wouldn’t have to date or . . . I don’t know, I just didn’t have\n15 the eagerness to date at all until now. I think it’s fun now and I like it.\n16 AJ: Yeah, that’s awesome.\n17 SM: I hadn’t done it before, so yeah.\n18 AJ: Yeah, dating is kind of fun – having done a little dating myself. Wow, have you had sex? You\n19 said you haven’t dated . . .\n20 SM: The guy that I’m dating with, we haven’t had sex yet. We’ve been fooling around, but we\n21 haven’t had intercourse yet and it was just . . . waiting for the right moment, I think, for me. I\n22 don’t know, I just like making out and stuff.\n23 AJ: Yeah, yeah – no. Our bodies are a big thing for us and so, you know, I think who we are willing\n24 to share that with is a big thing and it takes time.\n25 SM: I definitely want the person I’m dating to respect me still, to get more respect. I know people\n26 will have sex and then they end up not talking to them afterwards. It was just an experience for\n27 them.\n28 AJ: Right.\n29 SM: So, I’ve been trying to just not have sex.\n30 AJ: That’s a smart move. This is November 19th, so tomorrow is Transgender Day of Remembrance.\n31 SM: Nice.\n32 AJ: What do you think about that day?\nSelena Meza 20\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nSM: Transgender 1 Day of Remembrance?\n2 AJ: Yeah.\n3 SM: I think it’s important because it’s kind of . . . I guess, like putting mainstream people onto the\n4 trans people that have been dead or getting murdered. I think it’s something that a lot of cis\n5 people don’t even think about or even care about. I think that that day, hopefully some people\n6 would get to know the people that died before – or at least some transgender historical figures,\n7 just learning about trans people.\n8 AJ: Right.\n9 SM: I think that’s important. So, I think at least having a day is good.\n10 AJ: Yeah. Are you going to do anything to mark the day? There’s a lot of celebrations . . . not\n11 celebrations, but observances, I should say, and events around town.\n12 SM: Yeah, I haven’t heard about anything going on, but I would love to go to something.\n13 AJ: Maybe I can pass on some information to you.\n14 SM: Yeah, that would be awesome.\n15 AJ: So, again, is there anything that I didn’t ask that you feel really compelled to share?\n16 SM: I don’t think so. I think you’ve asked really good questions.\n17 AJ: Yeah. Wow, well it’s been my pleasure to meet you and talk with you. We’ve met before, but\n18 to really get an opportunity to get to know each other.\n19 SM: Yeah, definitely.\n20 AJ: I certainly have learned more about you than you have about me, so thank you for sharing your\n21 story, thank you for being a part of this project – and until we meet again, my friend.\n22 SM: Yes, thank you.\n23 AJ: All right. Bye-bye.\n24 SM: Bye.", "_version_": 1710339106791227392, "type": "Moving Image", "collection": "p16022coll97", "is_compound": false, "parent_id": "118", "thumb_url": "https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1369852/thumbnail/entry_id/0_vbr7bef9", "thumb_cdn_url": "https://dkp5i0hinw9br.cloudfront.net/ab6eb596f80c5777433c55897c1278bd64c19b31.png", "children": [ ] }