{ "id": "p16022coll97:140", "object": "https://cdm16022.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getthumbnail/collection/p16022coll97/id/140", "set_spec": "p16022coll97", "collection_name": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "collection_name_s": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "collection_description": "
The Tretter Transgender Oral History Project (TTOHP) collects, preserves, and makes accessible oral histories of gender transgression, especially as theyintersect with race, age, sexuality, citizenship, class, and ability. The project seeks to document the power and vision of trans movements for justice through the stories of activists working to imagine another world.
\n\nThe first phase of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project was led by poet and activist Andrea Jenkins—who became the first Black transgender woman to serve in office in the US after she was elected, in 2017, to the Minneapolis City Council. This phase of the project sought to document the life stories and experiences of transgender and gender non-conforming people, with a focus on people living in the upper Midwest as well as those often excluded from the historical record, including trans people of color and trans elders.
\n\nThe second phase of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project is led by trans studies scholar Myrl Beam. This phase of work seeks to document histories of trans activist movements and politics in the US, and is grounded in the belief that trans movements for justice are about more than rights: they are about survival, and about creating a new, more fabulous, more livable, and more expansive world––one not structured by racialized gender norms. The oral histories collected during this phase document the transformative power of trans movements, and the stories of trans activists who are building them.
\n\nFor more about the project, visit: https://www.lib.umn.edu/tretter/transgender-oral-history-project.
", "title": "Interview with Ashlee Sapalaran", "title_s": "Interview with Ashlee Sapalaran", "title_t": "Interview with Ashlee Sapalaran", "title_search": "Interview with Ashlee Sapalaran", "title_sort": "interviewwithashleesapalaran", "description": "Ashlee Saparalan is a Filipina female from the Philippines. She talks about her family and growing up in the Philippines, and compares life in the Philippines to her experiences in the United States. She talks about working in Thailand, religion, and meeting and marrying her husband.", "date_created": [ "2017-05-16" ], "date_created_ss": [ "2017-05-16" ], "date_created_sort": "2017", "creator": [ "Sapalaran, Ashlee" ], "creator_ss": [ "Sapalaran, Ashlee" ], "creator_sort": "sapalaranashlee", "contributor": [ "Jenkins, Andrea (Interviewer)" ], "contributor_ss": [ "Jenkins, Andrea (Interviewer)" ], "notes": "Forms part of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project, Phase 1.", "types": [ "Moving Image" ], "format": [ "Oral histories | http://vocab.getty.edu/aat/300202595" ], "format_name": [ "Oral histories" ], "dimensions": "0:59:27", "subject": [ "Family Relationships", "Immigration", "Spirituality, Spiritual Life, Religion", "Sex and Love", "Work", "Asian Pacific Islander (Api)", "Gender Affirming Care", "Passing", "Privilege", "Harassment", "Discrimination", "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project Phase 1" ], "subject_ss": [ "Family Relationships", "Immigration", "Spirituality, Spiritual Life, Religion", "Sex and Love", "Work", "Asian Pacific Islander (Api)", "Gender Affirming Care", "Passing", "Privilege", "Harassment", "Discrimination", "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project Phase 1" ], "language": [ "English" ], "city": [ "Minneapolis" ], "state": [ "Minnesota" ], "country": [ "United States" ], "continent": [ "North America" ], "geonames": [ "http://sws.geonames.org/5037657/" ], "parent_collection": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "parent_collection_name": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "contributing_organization": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contributing_organization_name": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contributing_organization_name_s": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contact_information": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies. 111 Elmer L. Andersen Library, 222 - 21st Avenue South, Minneapolis, MN 55455; https://www.lib.umn.edu/tretter", "fiscal_sponsor": "This project is funded through the generous support of The TAWANI Foundation, Headwaters Foundation and many individual donors.", "local_identifier": [ "tretter414_tohp144" ], "dls_identifier": [ "tretter414_tohp144" ], "rights_statement_uri": "http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-EDU/1.0/", "kaltura_audio": "1_10pbg0nz", "kaltura_video": "1_k41pjv0v", "kaltura_combo_playlist": "0_3bpxi0vh", "page_count": 0, "record_type": "primary", "first_viewer_type": "kaltura_combo_playlist", "viewer_type": "kaltura_combo_playlist", "attachment": "51.pdf", "attachment_format": "pdf", "document_type": "item", "featured_collection_order": 999, "date_added": "2018-09-24T00:00:00Z", "date_added_sort": "2018-09-24T00:00:00Z", "date_modified": "2020-05-22T00:00:00Z", "transcription": "Renan (Ashlee) Sapalaran\nNarrator\nAndrea Jenkins\nInterviewer\nThe Transgender Oral History Project\nTretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nMay 16, 2017\nThe Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story,\nwhile providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source\nmaterial about the transgender community. The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the\nUniversity of Minnesota. The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for\ncurrent and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public.\nThe Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300\nindividuals over the next three years. Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and\nexperiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality. This project will be led by\nAndrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist. Andrea brings years of experience working in\ngovernment, non-profits and LGBT organizations. If you are interested in being involved in this exciting\nproject, please contact Andrea.\nAndrea Jenkins\njenki120@umn.edu\n(612) 625-4379\n1\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 3\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAndrea 1 Jenkins -AJ\n2 Renan (Ashlee) Sapalaran -RS\n3\n4 AJ: So, hello.\n5\n6 RS: Hi.\n7\n8 AJ: My name is Andrea Jenkins, and I am the Oral Historian for the Transgender Oral History Project\n9 at the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota Libraries. Today is May 16th, and I’m\n10 here in Minneapolis. I’m here today with Ashlee Sapalaran.\n11\n12 RS: Correct.\n13\n14 AJ: Did I say that right?\n15\n16 RS: Yes. [Laughs].\n17\n18 AJ: Oh my goodness. How are you, Ashlee?\n19\n20 RS: I’m good. Feeling, feeling wonderful.\n21\n22 AJ: Feeling wonderful. That’s great. Hey, listen. Can you state your name…\n23\n24 RS: Mhm.\n25\n26 AJ: … spell it so we make sure we have everything spelled correctly, state your gender today, your\n27 gender assigned at birth…\n28\n29 RS: Mhm.\n30\n31 AJ: … and, uhm, your pronouns.\n32\n33 RS: Yeah. My birth name is Renan, R.E.N.A.N.\n34\n35 AJ: R.E.\n36\n37 RS: N.A.N. Yeah. Last name is Sapalaran, S.A.P.A.L.A.R.A.N. When I transitioned, I’m Ashlee,\n38 A.S.H.L.E.E.\n39\n40 AJ: Okay.\n41\n42 RS: Yeah, and my assigned, I was born male, and now, uhm, I’m a female.\n43\n44 AJ: Mhm.\n45\n46 RS: And, uhm, my pronouns, I like to be called she/her. Yeah.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 4\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Wow. Well, thank you, Ashlee. Thank you for being here today. This is really wonderful.\n3\n4 RS: Thank you.\n5\n6 AJ: Just to sit down and get to know you a little bit better. Where are you from?\n7\n8 RS: Philippines.\n9\n10 AJ: Is that right?\n11\n12 RS: Yes, Philippines.\n13\n14 AJ: Wow. And you’re really recent to Minnesota and to the United States.\n15\n16 RS: Yes.\n17\n18 AJ: How did you get here?\n19\n20 RS: I moved here like September 1, 2016.\n21\n22 AJ: Uhuh.\n23\n24 RS: I came here to be with my hus— my long time fiancé.\n25\n26 AJ: Uhuh.\n27\n28 RS: Uh, we’ve been together for like 6 years. It’s been a long distance relationship.\n29\n30 AJ: Right.\n31\n32 RS: Then after…\n33\n34 AJ: Minnesota and to the Philippines?\n35\n36 RS: Yeah. So he just…\n37\n38 AJ: That’s pretty long distance.\n39\n40 RS: Pretty long distance, like miles, miles away. So he just kept coming to the Philippines or\n41 Thailand…\n42\n43 AJ: Uhuh.\n44\n45 RS: … where I used to live as well.\n46\n47 AJ: Oh, so you used to live in Thailand.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 5\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: I live in Thailand. We have condo there with my husband who bought properties there.\n3\n4 AJ: Oh wow.\n5\n6 RS: Yes. For three years and had my surgeries there.\n7\n8 AJ: Uhuh.\n9\n10 RS: You know, like my breasts, my hips…\n11\n12 AJ: Uhuh.\n13\n14 RS: And then on 2015 when Barack Obama, you know, announces that the same sex marriage\n15 should be legalized…\n16\n17 AJ: Mhm.\n18\n19 RS: … in all 50 states…\n20\n21 AJ: Mhm.\n22\n23 RS: … then that’s the time we had hope already that me and him could live together here in\n24 America.\n25\n26 AJ: Wow.\n27\n28 RS: You know, because, like, uhm, before it’s not that easy to get a visa to come to the United States\n29 so…\n30\n31 AJ: Sure.\n32\n33 RS: This way…\n34\n35 AJ: You could come.\n36\n37 RS: Yeah.\n38\n39 AJ: Wow.\n40\n41 RS: So it’s like this is really a dream come true for me and my husband. It’s been 6 years and finally\n42 live together.\n43\n44 AJ: How did you guys meet?\n45\n46 RS: Uhm, dating site.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 6\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: Uhuh.\n2\n3 RS: You know, that’s when I was, uhm, like 6 years ago, I’ve been looking for, for a serious\n4 relationship.\n5\n6 AJ: Mhm.\n7\n8 RS: Like someone who is going to treat me, so treat me really like a lady in a way that I wanted to be\n9 treated.\n10\n11 AJ: Mhm. The way you deserve.\n12\n13 RS: The way I deserve to be treated so I went to this, uh, dating site for transgender people, and I\n14 met him and started communicating. Then he went to see me in the Philippines. He went to\n15 Thailand, but then we’re having hard time for me to come here…\n16\n17 AJ: Mhm.\n18\n19 RS: … because it’s not easy to get the visa.\n20\n21 AJ: Yeah.\n22\n23 RS: So that’s why we waited until the year 2015, you know, that finally it’s legalized in America.\n24\n25 AJ: So when you say thanks Obama, you’re not being, uh, [laughs] facetious like some other people.\n26\n27 RS: No, no. I was just… I’m really, really thankful, you know, that finally they had legalized it here.\n28\n29 AJ: Right.\n30\n31 RS: It’s good to see America moving forward.\n32\n33 AJ: You know, I’m happy that, that you’re able to, to be here with the one you love.\n34\n35 RS: Yeah.\n36\n37 AJ: So you guys met online.\n38\n39 RS: Mhm.\n40\n41 AJ: He would come visit.\n42\n43 RS: Yeah.\n44\n45 AJ: You bought a house in Thailand.\n46\n47 RS: And in the Philippines. We have…\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 7\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: You have two?\n3\n4 RS: We have two houses. We have houses in Philippines and a condo in Thailand because during\n5 that time, Andrea, we hoped really like, you know, we’ve been together 3 years and…\n6\n7 AJ: Yeah.\n8\n9 RS: … oh what’s the next plan?\n10\n11 AJ: So maybe he might move.\n12\n13 RS: Yeah.\n14\n15 AJ: He was maybe gonna move…\n16\n17 RS: Move there. The plan is like 6 months here and then go to the Philippines, you know, that’s the\n18 plan. That’s why we bought properties.\n19\n20 AJ: So you will still do that?\n21\n22 RS: In the future maybe, but right now I have to stay here for…\n23\n24 AJ: Yeah, for two years.\n25\n26 RS: … for two years for the green card, you know.\n27\n28 AJ: Wow. That is fascinating. So tell me a little bit about growing up in the Philippines. Actually, let\n29 me ask you this. What is the earliest thing you remember in life? What’s your first memory?\n30\n31 RS: When I was still young, my mom would always go to the office…\n32\n33 AJ: Mhm.\n34\n35 RS: … you know, in the morning she would dress…\n36\n37 AJ: Your mother was an accountant.\n38\n39 RS: Yeah, she’s an accountant. And every morning she would dress, put makeup, wear her heels, her\n40 skirt, and, you know…\n41\n42 AJ: Very beautiful.\n43\n44 RS: Very beautiful. You know, and smell so good. I was like, oh I want to be like my mom.\n45\n46 AJ: Oh wow.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 8\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: You know, I was like 4 years old, 5 years old, I dress, you know. And 1 then my auntie was taking\n2 care of me. She called me and was like, “Oh my god. You look just like your mom.”\n3\n4 AJ: Like a little, like a girl.\n5\n6 RS: Like a girl.\n7\n8 AJ: Uhuh.\n9\n10 RS: And my, what you call it, she talked to my mom about it, and my mom said. “No, no he’s my\n11 son. You know, he want to, he want to be a woman because he’s my son.”\n12\n13 AJ: Right.\n14\n15 RS: And my father was like, he’s policeman so he’s kind of strong, you know, and strict when it\n16 comes to, when it comes, we have rules in the house, you know, it’s very discipline, discipline\n17 oriented person. But then he said that, “Just let, let him be who he wants to be when he grows\n18 up.”\n19\n20 AJ: Really?\n21\n22 RS: He was really supportive about it.\n23\n24 AJ: Your father?\n25\n26 RS: My father.\n27\n28 AJ: When you’re 4 years old.\n29\n30 RS: My mom is the one that I had like the trauma.\n31\n32 AJ: To convince? Uhuh.\n33\n34 RS: Yeah, we had a big fight…\n35\n36 AJ: Really?\n37\n38 RS: … when I was coming out already.\n39\n40 AJ: Wow. Uhm, so you were 4 years old. You were watching your mother.\n41\n42 RS: Yeah.\n43\n44 AJ: Wearing her clothes sometimes. Uhm, did you have brothers and sisters?\n45\n46 RS: I do have a, I have my brother, I have two brothers and one sister as well.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 9\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAJ: Mhm. And what do they think? Did they ever see you wearing your mother’s 1 clothing?\n2\n3 RS: Actually, yeah, they see me, it was like my brother, “Why are you wearing…?” It was just\n4 surprise.\n5\n6 AJ: Uhuh.\n7\n8 RS: You know, but what I love about my brother…\n9\n10 AJ: Are they younger or older?\n11\n12 RS: Younger. I’m the eldest.\n13\n14 AJ: Oh, you’re the oldest.\n15\n16 RS: Yeah. My brother is three years younger than me but we were really, what, what I love about it\n17 is we’re really close to each other.\n18\n19 AJ: Sure.\n20\n21 RS: You know, and then, my brothers are always the ones that protects me.\n22\n23 AJ: Oh.\n24\n25 RS: And what I love about my brother because my, my father really taught him that, “Whatever\n26 your, your, uhm, Ashlee wants to be when you grow up, you should always maintain the\n27 respect, you know...”\n28\n29 AJ: Wow.\n30\n31 RS: “… to her.”\n32\n33 AJ: Wow.\n34\n35 RS: Or to him.\n36\n37 AJ: As an older…\n38\n39 RS: As an older sibling. That’s why when me and my younger brother next to me, we fight.\n40\n41 AJ: Mhm.\n42\n43 RS: He will not really say that. Oh, “You’re gay, you know, you belong on this.” We had that. I’m\n44 really, really thankful. We only had something like, they get a little bit, uhm, intimidated when I,\n45 after my, my, my, uh, my surgery when I went back from Thailand. Like, it’s like old woman\n46 already, they kind of feel like. They adjust for a while.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 10\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: Yeah.\n2\n3 RS: But after that the bond gets more closer.\n4\n5 AJ: Oh, good.\n6\n7 RS: Yeah.\n8\n9 AJ: So, uhm, so you had an intact family. Your mom and dad married.\n10\n11 RS: Yeah.\n12\n13 AJ: Brothers and sisters. What about school? Where did you go to school?\n14\n15 RS: Oh, uhm, the problem is the school.\n16\n17 AJ: Yeah.\n18\n19 RS: The schools in the Philippines are Catholic.\n20\n21 AJ: Mhm.\n22\n23 RS: You know, so it’s like, when we were in high school we would put makup and, uh, our principle\n24 is a nun.\n25\n26 AJ: A nun?\n27\n28 RS: A nun.\n29\n30 AJ: Oh wow.\n31\n32 RS: Very, very strict.\n33\n34 AJ: Uhuh.\n35\n36 RS: You know, it was, would really get angry and, you know, you cannot do that one because you\n37 were born as a man.\n38\n39 AJ: Right.\n40\n41 RS: You know. God only created man and woman. That’s really, you know, in my mind, it’s the way\n42 that people say in the Philippines. You’re always a he. You cannot. You will never be…\n43\n44 AJ: Even if you have surgery. Even if you…\n45\n46 RS: They will still call, there’s…\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 11\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAJ: I mean, you look like 1 a beautiful woman.\n2\n3 RS: Yeah, here in America, I really felt treated like a woman.\n4\n5 AJ: Uhuh.\n6\n7 RS: No, I never had experience when someone call me him or he, so far in the last eight months I\n8 never had experience. When I go…\n9\n10 AJ: Nobody would. They’d be crazy. People would think they’re crazy if they said that.\n11\n12 RS: Yeah, when I went to the restroom no one has pulled me out.\n13\n14 AJ: Right.\n15\n16 RS: Except, when I was in the Philippines like me and my, we transitioned already, whether it was\n17 surgeries, we were at the restroom and we were forced to take, to be out of toilet.\n18\n19 AJ: How did they know?\n20\n21 RS: Culturally, they’re very aware about it.\n22\n23 AJ: Really?\n24\n25 RS: Like here in the States, it’s like… we’re really forced to get out of the women’s restroom.\n26\n27 AJ: Did they call the police?\n28\n29 RS: They called the security guard. We talk with the security guard, it’s like why would we go to the\n30 man’s, I mean, the man will harass us.\n31\n32 AJ: Yes.\n33\n34 RS: And how are we going to be in the men’s restroom. I hope you would respect, you know, our, I\n35 talked to the security guard, “I respect you being a man. I hope you respect us for being…” but\n36 he said they would reply to us it’s a policy in the company. I said, “No, let me talk to the\n37 manager.”\n38\n39 AJ: Yeah.\n40\n41 RS: You know, we talked to the manager. The manager apologized to us, but they said that what can\n42 he do but he only, he’s following the rules only of the…\n43\n44 AJ: Wow.\n45\n46 RS: And we don’t have any laws in the Philippines, sad to say.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 12\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: To protect?\n2\n3 RS: To protect, like discrimination, we don’t have that.\n4\n5 AJ: Are there people that are advocating for…\n6\n7 RS: Yeah, actually…\n8\n9 AJ: … for your rights?\n10\n11 RS: That’s the one that, uh, their advocating right now. We’re passing the… there’s a bill to be\n12 signed by the senators and the mayors of the Philippines.\n13\n14 AJ: Mhm.\n15\n16 RS: So I hope, I hope…\n17\n18 AJ: Things get better.\n19\n20 RS: … things get better…\n21\n22 AJ: Yeah.\n23\n24 RS: … because we need to move forward, you know.\n25\n26 AJ: Mhm.\n27\n28 RS: We’re moving, we’re moving backwards.\n29\n30 AJ: Yeah. I think so with this new administration we have here in the United States…\n31\n32 RS: [Laughs].\n33\n34 AJ: Uhm, were you involved in activism or…?\n35\n36 RS: No, I wasn’t involved in there. I was, I was busy working in the Philippines before.\n37\n38 AJ: Yeah. What work did you do?\n39\n40 RS: I work as a customer service representative.\n41\n42 AJ: Oh really?\n43\n44 RS: Yeah.\n45\n46 AJ: For like a car rental agency?\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 13\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: Yeah, I worked for 1 State Farm before.\n2\n3 AJ: Oh really? Okay.\n4\n5 RS: T-Mobile. Stuff like that.\n6\n7 AJ: Okay. Yeah.\n8\n9 RS: We have an online pharmacy as well. Like, you know, we ordered medicines, cigarettes, and\n10 other stuff. You know.\n11\n12 AJ: Oh wow.\n13\n14 RS: They went to, they go to Philippines for the inbound, for the call center but it’s a lot cheaper,\n15 the wage.\n16\n17 AJ: Cheaper. Yeah, the wages.\n18\n19 RS: Yeah, and like here.\n20\n21 AJ: So they come to the Philippines.\n22\n23 RS: They come to the Philippines, and we speak English as our second language. We were colonized\n24 once with Americans so that’s why they…\n25\n26 AJ: The Philippines?\n27\n28 RS: Yes.\n29\n30 AJ: Really? Not French?\n31\n32 RS: No. French is, uh, Thailand.\n33\n34 AJ: Thailand.\n35\n36 RS: No, no, no, uhm, Cambodia and Laos. We were colonized Spain, Japan, and last is the, uh,\n37 United States.\n38\n39 AJ: Wow.\n40\n41 RS: That’s why we speak English.\n42\n43 AJ: Mhm. [Laughs].\n44\n45 RS: You know.\n46\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 14\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAJ: Yeah. Uhm, wow, I didn’t know this political history. When did the United States 1 leave? Do you\n2 know?\n3\n4 RS: It’s in the ‘90s because until now we still have the American base in America.\n5\n6 AJ: Mhm.\n7\n8 RS: And we were almost become a colony, of, uh, we will become a state of America, uh, one of the\n9 territories. Yeah, because we were close to Guam…\n10\n11 AJ: Right.\n12\n13 RS: … Hawaii, is like six hours flight.\n14\n15 AJ: Okay. So it’s not very far.\n16\n17 RS: It’s not very far. You know.\n18\n19 AJ: Uhm, so I imagine in your hometown, like, did you live by the beach? Did you…\n20\n21 RS: Yes. Yeah, we…\n22\n23 AJ: Did you go to the beach?\n24\n25 RS: Every, a lot, you know, that’s why we’re really, really tan. [Laughs]. Yeah, so it’s like our house is\n26 near…\n27\n28 AJ: Do you get darker than you are now?\n29\n30 RS: Yeah. More darker. And I didn’t know that when I got here in America, that is really beautiful on\n31 you in your eyes here in the states.\n32\n33 AJ: Yeah.\n34\n35 RS: In the Philippines we like to get white.\n36\n37 AJ: Really?\n38\n39 RS: We have, we have some, we take capsules, whitening capsules, bleaching soap…\n40\n41 AJ: Really?\n42\n43 RS: … bleaching for us to get white.\n44\n45 AJ: Oh, brown skin.\n46\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 15\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: Brown skin is really sexy. You know, it’s like when I was at the, when 1 I was at Walgreens one\n2 day, they touch my skin, “How do you get that brown?” “It’s natural because I’m Asian.” “Oh my\n3 god. I spent thousands of dollars at a tanning session.” I said, “Oh really? In our country we\n4 spend thousands for us to get white.”\n5\n6 AJ: Right.\n7\n8 RS: Injections just to be white.\n9\n10 AJ: Really?\n11\n12 RS: You know, and we have operations on our nose to get same like America.\n13\n14 AJ: Uhuh.\n15\n16 RS: How ironic is it? [Laughs].\n17\n18 AJ: Yeah, that’s very ironic. It’s very ironic. Uhm, so, you, you had a hard time in school, but you\n19 graduated.\n20\n21 RS: I graduated with management.\n22\n23 AJ: Okay, did you go to college?\n24\n25 RS: Yes.\n26\n27 AJ: Okay.\n28\n29 RS: Yeah, I have bachelor’s, four years degree of, uh, tourism, tourism management.\n30\n31 AJ: Oh wow.\n32\n33 RS: Yeah.\n34\n35 AJ: Oh my goodness.\n36\n37 RS: I work as, uh, a tourist guide when I was in Thailand for quite a while.\n38\n39 AJ: Mhm.\n40\n41 RS: Yeah. Before I move here.\n42\n43 AJ: Did you like that?\n44\n45 RS: I like because you, uh, you meet different types of people.\n46\n47 AJ: Mhm.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 16\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: You know, and, you guide them, you show them around. Show them the beautiful place, you\n3 know.\n4\n5 AJ: So was life better as a transgender person, was it better in Thailand or in the Philippines?\n6\n7 RS: Thailand.\n8\n9 AJ: Yeah.\n10\n11 RS: Thailand. Thailand is my second, Thailand for me is my home.\n12\n13 AJ: Uhuh.\n14\n15 RS: As a transgender, they’re really open.\n16\n17 AJ: Really?\n18\n19 RS: Because it’s a way of life. Their beliefs is like whatever gender you have, whatever gender you\n20 really want to be, as long as you do good to others, they believe much in karma.\n21\n22 AJ: Right.\n23\n24 RS: It will go back into you. If you do good to people, you’ll receive something good in the end.\n25\n26 AJ: Mhm.\n27\n28 RS: You know, it’s really accepting, and, uhm, you’ll see many transgender working there as like, as\n29 a, uhm, they work in the hotels, the flight attendants…\n30\n31 AJ: Mhm.\n32\n33 RS: You know, it’s not the same in the Philippines. Like your options are very limited.\n34\n35 AJ: Yeah. Just in the salons.\n36\n37 RS: Like in the salon, you know. Others work in the…\n38\n39 AJ: Sex work.\n40\n41 RS: Sex worker.\n42\n43 AJ: Mhm.\n44\n45 RS: The streets.\n46\n47 AJ: Sex worker is kind of a big deal in Thailand.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 17\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: In Thailand too, but in Thailand they have this, they have a, they have a… a bar…\n3\n4 AJ: Mhm.\n5\n6 RS: … for transgender. In the Philippines we don’t have.\n7\n8 AJ: Oh really?\n9\n10 RS: There’s a, there’s a, they call it ladyboys.\n11\n12 AJ: Ladyboys.\n13\n14 RS: They have ladyboys. In Thailand they have a ladyboy bar in Thailand.\n15\n16 AJ: Okay.\n17\n18 RS: In the Philippines, no. The church will be very angry with that.\n19\n20 AJ: Really?\n21\n22 RS: Yeah, the church plays a big part, politically in the Philippines. Like in Thailand they’re more\n23 accepting.\n24\n25 AJ: Hm. Wow. Uhm, so when did you first realize that you were not the gender you were assigned\n26 at birth?\n27\n28 RS: When I was like 4, 5 years old, 6 years old at that time.\n29\n30 AJ: So the same time you, that’s your earliest memory.\n31\n32 RS: Yeah, that’s the earliest memory that, you know, my mom when we go dancing, we do dancing\n33 at the school, at a field demonstration, you know, United Nations celebration, I’m gonna be\n34 paired with a girl.\n35\n36 AJ: Mhm.\n37\n38 RS: I don’t like it because I want to be the girl.\n39\n40 AJ: Really? [Laughs].\n41\n42 RS: Yeah, we do the practice, and I would wear the heels of my partner. You know I would wear\n43 heels and put lipstick.\n44\n45 AJ: Oh wow.\n46\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 18\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: And my mom caught me, “Oh my god. That’s why all my lipsticks got broken 1 already because\n2 you’d been using it.” I said, “No, no I didn’t not.” I cry.\n3\n4 AJ: Right. [Laughs].\n5\n6 RS: And my sister’s barbie dolls, I took it.\n7\n8 AJ: Uhuh.\n9\n10 RS: And I comb it.\n11\n12 AJ: Oh wow.\n13\n14 RS: I hid it inside my room.\n15\n16 AJ: Oh my goodness.\n17\n18 RS: Oh my god this is really cute.\n19\n20 AJ: So you’re a very, uh, you know, you knew what you were. And then you transitioned.\n21\n22 RS: 17.\n23\n24 AJ: At 17.\n25\n26 RS: When I was in college, you know, I started taking hormones.\n27\n28 AJ: Mhm.\n29\n30 RS: And I worked on going to the doctor, a psychiatrist, a psycho— a psychiatrist to have the letter\n31 and… And like here you need to have the blood test.\n32\n33 AJ: Yeah.\n34\n35 RS: You need to have the, uhm, prescription.\n36\n37 AJ: Mhm.\n38\n39 RS: Letter from your doctor to buy hormones.\n40\n41 AJ: Right.\n42\n43 RS: You can buy over the counter.\n44\n45 AJ: Oh wow.\n46\n47 RS: Yes.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 19\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Really?\n3\n4 RS: Yeah, so it’s like at 17 we started taking hormones to inject.\n5\n6 AJ: Mhm.\n7\n8 RS: That’s how young in the Philippines, you know.\n9\n10 AJ: Transgender.\n11\n12 RS: Yeah, you know, we don’t need to go to the doctor to get— Unlike here, when I move here I\n13 need to go to Smiley's…\n14\n15 AJ: Right.\n16\n17 RS: I didn’t get, I didn’t get letter anymore. They just look at me and say, “Oh, you don’t need a\n18 letter. We’ll just have some tests, you know, that’s it.”\n19\n20 AJ: Sure.\n21\n22 RS: And then they prescribe me the medicine.\n23\n24 AJ: Mhm.\n25\n26 RS: So…\n27\n28 AJ: Is it more expensive here or in the Philippines?\n29\n30 RS: It is more expensive here but we have good insurance.\n31\n32 AJ: Oh, okay.\n33\n34 RS: I’m thankful for insurance. We only pay like, I only pay like $3 on one for the..\n35\n36 AJ: $3?\n37\n38 RS: Yeah, for the hormones.\n39\n40 AJ: Yeah, wow. That’s good. [Laughs].\n41\n42 RS: [Laughs]. I thought it was…\n43\n44 AJ: So your husband’s insurance covers your hormones?\n45\n46 RS: Yeah.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 20\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: Yeah, wow.\n2\n3 RS: My husband’s insurance.\n4\n5 AJ: That’s great.\n6\n7 RS: Yeah.\n8\n9 AJ: Uhm, what has been some of the positive things for you since you decided to transition and to\n10 really express your true gender identity?\n11\n12 RS: I become more confidant.\n13\n14 AJ: Mhm.\n15\n16 RS: And really happy inside me.\n17\n18 AJ: Yeah.\n19\n20 RS: Because when I was still a young boy, you know, I could really feel that, you know, I really\n21 prayed that, I really tried my best to still be a man, but then when I was growing up I felt like all,\n22 this is not really me.\n23\n24 AJ: Right.\n25\n26 RS: You know, so, after I transition I become more strong.\n27\n28 AJ: Mhm.\n29\n30 RS: You know, to face the world. Being transgender, it’s not easy. You’ll have the discrimination. You\n31 get being bullied, you know, being judged.\n32\n33 AJ: Mhm.\n34\n35 RS: I think that’s really typical if you’re a transgender. There are really incidents that you cannot\n36 avoid. You’ll be discriminated sometimes.\n37\n38 AJ: Sure.\n39\n40 RS: You know, but because of that, my experiences, it made me a lot more stronger, become more\n41 proud of being me.\n42\n43 AJ: Mhm.\n44\n45 RS: It’s like I’m not afraid anymore. I mean, you could throw anything about me.\n46\n47 AJ: Wow.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 21\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: You know, you could throw anything at me, and I have myself. I have my family who have my\n3 back and my husband.\n4\n5 AJ: Mhm.\n6\n7 RS: I’ve noticed that I’ve become more, uh, I’m not scared to express what I feel, you know.\n8\n9 AJ: Wow. That’s, that’s huge.\n10\n11 RS: Yeah, that’s really huge. Especially living in a Catholic country.\n12\n13 AJ: Uhuh.\n14\n15 RS: You know.\n16\n17 AJ: Yeah, cause they try to make you more subdued.\n18\n19 RS: Yes.\n20\n21 AJ: Not speak up.\n22\n23 RS: Yeah, and not speak up, you know, no laws protecting us…\n24\n25 AJ: Mhm.\n26\n27 RS: You know, and they’re forcing you… or they will, that they want you to be, and you know to\n28 yourself..\n29\n30 AJ: Who you are.\n31\n32 RS: I know myself, who I am. You don’t need to, you don’t need to preach me.\n33\n34 AJ: Right.\n35\n36 RS: You know. You can condemn me. You know, you can condemn us all you want, you know.\n37\n38 AJ: Mhm.\n39\n40 RS: But, we’re just being ourself.\n41\n42 AJ: Yeah.\n43\n44 RS: There is nothing wrong if you are transgender…\n45\n46 AJ: No.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 22\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: … gay, 1 lesbian, you know.\n2\n3 AJ: No, it’s beautiful.\n4\n5 RS: It’s beautiful.\n6\n7 AJ: Mhm.\n8\n9 RS: You know, being different is really beautiful.\n10\n11 AJ: Yeah. What have been some of the challenges that you have faced since you’ve come out? I\n12 mean, I know you talked about some harassment in the Philippines. They call you he…\n13\n14 RS: Yeah.\n15\n16 AJ: … sir, but have there been other challenges?\n17\n18 RS: The other challenges is finding a really, a job that you want, you know? Like in the Philippines I\n19 want to work at the hotel. They will interview me, but they would say that, “Oh, you’re really\n20 qualified for the job, but we only accept men and women.”\n21\n22 AJ: Really?\n23\n24 RS: They would really say that to you. That really hurts.\n25\n26 AJ: Yes.\n27\n28 RS: Because I talked to them, I would send, my response would be like, “Does it make me less of a\n29 person that I am a transgender?”\n30\n31 AJ: Mhm.\n32\n33 RS: Or, you know, and they would say that, “It’s really our policy.” You know, that’s really the\n34 challenges. That’s why, uh, we will accept you but you need to cut your hair and dress like a man\n35 and stop the hormones that you are taking. We only accept man and woman in this company.\n36\n37 AJ: Wow.\n38\n39 RS: That’s really, that’s really the challenge for all the transgender in the Philippines. That’s why\n40 after I tried my best to work there but I couldn’t really find a good job so I moved to Thailand.\n41\n42 AJ: Mhm.\n43\n44 RS: And they really like me there. They’re very, very happy with, because they like when you can\n45 speak English…\n46\n47 AJ: Yeah.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 23\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: … they don’t really speak English that much there…\n3\n4 AJ: Uhuh.\n5\n6 RS: … unlike the Philippines so when I applied for being a guide, a tourist guide, and it’s really my\n7 dream job to do that, and I got accepted.\n8\n9 AJ: Cause tourists come from all over the world.\n10\n11 RS: All over the world.\n12\n13 AJ: Mhm.\n14\n15 RS: It’s very accepting. More tourists compared to Philippines.\n16\n17 AJ: Okay.\n18\n19 RS: You know, so. That’s why I felt like home, like my second home. I am, I can be who I want to be\n20 in this country. And I had my surgeries there. And it’s like, they’re very, very open.\n21\n22 AJ: Wow.\n23\n24 RS: In our country, when you live there and you have a tattoo, they would think that, they look, they\n25 see you as, they look down on you.\n26\n27 AJ: Really?\n28\n29 RS: Yeah.\n30\n31 AJ: Tell me about your medical interventions, if you don’t mind talking about it. Uhm…\n32\n33 RS: Yeah, I had my like 7 years ago I started hormones.\n34\n35 AJ: Mhm.\n36\n37 RS: Then after like 3 year, 4 years after I went to Thailand had my breast surgery.\n38\n39 AJ: Mhm.\n40\n41 RS: And then after I had my hip surgery, my hips done as well.\n42\n43 AJ: When you say your hips, what does that mean?\n44\n45 RS: It’s like they inject silicone.\n46\n47 AJ: Oh, okay.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 24\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: I had like three sessions there.\n3\n4 AJ: Mhm.\n5\n6 RS: Yeah.\n7\n8 AJ: Did it make you feel more curvy?\n9\n10 RS: Yeah, it does.\n11\n12 AJ: [Laughs].\n13\n14 RS: You know, cause I was thinking at that time for a long time that I need to move to the next part.\n15 You know, and it’s a lot cheaper and safer there in Thailand, you know.\n16\n17 AJ: Yeah, wow, so are you happy with your body now?\n18\n19 RS: I am really happy.\n20\n21 AJ: Do you think you need, try for more surgeries or?\n22\n23 RS: I think so to, uhm, actually I talked to my husband about it, and he said, “It’s okay. You have the\n24 privilege if you wanna have done here in America or, you know, if you want to go back to\n25 Thailand, you can go back.” But we’ve got to wait for the green card because once, I cannot,\n26 once I get out of the country…\n27\n28 AJ: You may not come back.\n29\n30 RS: I cannot come back anymore.\n31\n32 AJ: Yeah. Uhm, so if you had more surgery, would it be like vaginoplasty?\n33\n34 RS: Yeah, that’s really my, my next, my next operation that I wanted to do.\n35\n36 AJ: Mhm.\n37\n38 RS: Yeah.\n39\n40 AJ: Are you afraid?\n41\n42 RS: A little bit. I am, I am praying about it. Yeah, from time to time, you know, to guide me, and, you\n43 know, spiritually, you know. And then but, you know, I’m ready emotionally.\n44\n45 AJ: Yeah. So you, you grew up in a Catholic country.\n46\n47 RS: Yeah.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 25\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: You went to Catholic schools. Are you, do you, are you a practicing Catholic person or do you\n3 see yourself as a religious person?\n4\n5 RS: No, not that much, but I still pray.\n6\n7 AJ: Mhm.\n8\n9 RS: You know, some of my Catholic beliefs are still there. You know, but not really religiously. Like\n10 here we go to the church but the Unity Church.\n11\n12 AJ: Oh, okay.\n13\n14 RS: Where they’re more accepting.\n15\n16 AJ: I like Unity Church.\n17\n18 RS: I like, it’s really, uhm, open.\n19\n20 AJ: Uhuh.\n21\n22 RS: You know, they’re very accepting.\n23\n24 AJ: Which one do you go to? In Bloomington or?\n25\n26 RS: Uh.\n27\n28 AJ: Golden Valley?\n29\n30 RS: Golden Valley. We go there. There’s a place where we always go.\n31\n32 AJ: Mhm. There’s good people there?\n33\n34 RS: Good, very welcoming. Very welcoming. Every Saturday we go. I go there with my husband.\n35\n36 AJ: Are you, so for service or to pray or?\n37\n38 RS: To pray and for service as well.\n39\n40 AJ: Uhuh. On Saturday?\n41\n42 RS: Oh Sunday, Sunday.\n43\n44 AJ: Oh, okay. Uhm, are you involved with the church other than just going?\n45\n46 RS: No.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 26\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAJ: Do you 1 volunteer there?\n2\n3 RS: No, no.\n4\n5 AJ: [Laughs]. I’m just asking. It’s not, you know, I’m not saying that you should or that you have to\n6 but, you know, sometimes I know that, uhm, you know, when you’re new to a place sometimes\n7 volunteering is a good way to meet people.\n8\n9 RS: Yeah, actually, uhm, I’m still learning to drive. That’s a problem.\n10\n11 AJ: Oh, okay.\n12\n13 RS: I really love to, in our country we don’t drive that much.\n14\n15 AJ: Right.\n16\n17 RS: We have, we have the train, bicycles, jeepney, jeepneies are our number one, our primary\n18 mode, mode…\n19\n20 AJ: What is it?\n21\n22 RS: Jeepney.\n23\n24 AJ: Jee— oh, a taxi.\n25\n26 RS: Yeah but bigger.\n27\n28 AJ: Uhuh.\n29\n30 RS: That’s our mode of transportation in the Philippines.\n31\n32 AJ: Jeepney.\n33\n34 RS: Yeah, we don’t really drive. Tricycle. We have the tricycle. That’s our mode of transportation.\n35\n36 AJ: Right. When someone’s driving in and you’re sitting.\n37\n38 RS: Yeah, in Asia that’s how we are or the train.\n39\n40 AJ: Uhuh.\n41\n42 RS: You know? So when I move here it’s like another big adjustment.\n43\n44 AJ: Yeah. Everybody is driving.\n45\n46 RS: Everybody is driving in America. 16 or 17 years old, you drive a car.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 27\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: Right.\n2\n3 RS: In our country, you know, only if you drive.\n4\n5 AJ: Right.\n6\n7 RS: Only if you can be allowed, if you can be given the chance to loan a car.\n8\n9 AJ: Yeah.\n10\n11 RS: It’s not the same in our country.\n12\n13 AJ: Mhm.\n14\n15 RS: You can loan a car, you can get credit card. We pay in cash there mostly.\n16\n17 AJ: Right. Yeah.\n18\n19 RS: So it’s really a big adjustment.\n20\n21 AJ: So it’s a big deal to get a car in the Philippines.\n22\n23 RS: It’s, it’s a big deal.\n24\n25 AJ: Yeah.\n26\n27 RS: You know, even student loan.\n28\n29 AJ: Mhm.\n30\n31 RS: You know, you’ll be the one to go to the banks and ask. Here they will want to call you asking for\n32 a student loan.\n33\n34 AJ: Right. [Laughs].\n35\n36 RS: It’s very different.\n37\n38 AJ: Yeah.\n39\n40 RS: So, but then I started to, I help my friends at the Thai celebration, Thai temples, you know…\n41\n42 AJ: Oh wow.\n43\n44 RS: … because she can give me a ride, and we get to bond.\n45\n46 AJ: Yeah.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 28\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: And Thai culture has been 1 very close to me.\n2\n3 AJ: You, you lived in Thailand.\n4\n5 RS: I can speak Thai as well.\n6\n7 AJ: Uhuh. And Sakura. I interviewed her. She’s from Thailand.\n8\n9 RS: She’s from Thailand. Yeah, but she grew up here in the states.\n10\n11 AJ: Uhuh.\n12\n13 RS: So we got the bond, the click, the connection, you know so we went to the temple last week.\n14 We’ve been helping each other to decorate.\n15\n16 AJ: Mhm.\n17\n18 RS: You know. And like this coming Saturday we’re going to do some, uhm, Thai culture\n19 presentation, modeling at the Mall of America.\n20\n21 AJ: Oh really?\n22\n23 RS: Yeah. I’ll be wearing some Thai costumes with the headdress and gowns.\n24\n25 AJ: Oh my goodness! I wish I could get a picture of that.\n26\n27 RS: Yeah, like last week we had a presentation as well at the Excel Energy with the, uh, for the\n28 Festival of Nations. Yes, I was there for like 3 days, and we were wearing the costumes so it’s\n29 good, you know.\n30\n31 AJ: Uhuh. Yeah you guys looked really beautiful at the May Day parade.\n32\n33 RS: At the May Day parade. We went to the May Day parade, yeah.\n34\n35 AJ: Yeah.\n36\n37 RS: So it’s really good that, you know, I get to go out, involved, you know.\n38\n39 AJ: Meet a lot of people.\n40\n41 RS: Meet a lot of people.\n42\n43 AJ: So what’s life like, you’re married to an American? Is he white?\n44\n45 RS: Yeah, he’s white.\n46\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 29\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAJ: He’s white. So, how is his family, do they accept you? Do they respect 1 you? Do they treat you\n2 well?\n3\n4 RS: Yeah, his mom and dad already died…\n5\n6 AJ: Okay.\n7\n8 RS: … 6 years, uh,7 years ago.\n9\n10 AJ: Okay.\n11\n12 RS: And, then, uhm, his brother is in California.\n13\n14 AJ: So you don’t see him?\n15\n16 RS: We don’t see him very much but we went to see his, uhm, his nephews…\n17\n18 AJ: Mhm.\n19\n20 RS: … and the family at Phoenix. We went to Phoenix on my birthday.\n21\n22 AJ: Uhuh.\n23\n24 RS: We celebrated my birthday. We went to Los Vegas for my birthday.\n25\n26 AJ: Oh nice.\n27\n28 RS: And then after two days we went to Phoenix to meet the family.\n29\n30 AJ: Sure.\n31\n32 RS: And they’re very nice. They’re very accepting. They didn’t even know that I’m a transgender…\n33\n34 AJ: They don’t know, right?\n35\n36 RS: … until I told them.\n37\n38 AJ: Oh, you did tell them?\n39\n40 RS: Yeah. Because he’s an honest person, so I didn’t want to…\n41\n42 AJ: Absolutely, I’m not trying to…\n43\n44 RS: And they’re family.\n45\n46 AJ: Yeah.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 30\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: You know, and even if we haven’t met yet before. We only contact, uh, 1 through my husband but\n2 I treat them as my family. So when I met them, we had dinner. We went to their house. We had\n3 barbecue.\n4\n5 AJ: Yeah.\n6\n7 RS: It’s like my late celebration of my birthday.\n8\n9 AJ: Uhuh.\n10\n11 RS: We had cake so it was really fun, and I told them that I’m transgender. And they were shocked,\n12 “Oh, really?” They don’t even know.\n13\n14 AJ: They don’t even know what to say.\n15\n16 RS: They don’t know what to say, but, and they gave me a hug, and, you know, it doesn’t matter as\n17 long as they see my husband really happy.\n18\n19 AJ: Yeah.\n20\n21 RS: You know, I took care of him.\n22\n23 AJ: Mhm.\n24\n25 RS: And they said that, and actually, uh, they’ve been wanting us to move to Phoenix.\n26\n27 AJ: Oh really?\n28\n29 RS: Yep, it’s really warm.\n30\n31 AJ: It’s warm there, like the Philippines.\n32\n33 RS: Like the Philippines. And there’s a lot…\n34\n35 AJ: There’s no water. There’s no ocean or anything.\n36\n37 RS: There’s no ocean but, uhm, but there’s a lot of Philippine communities as well.\n38\n39 AJ: Oh really?\n40\n41 RS: Yeah, there’s Philippine restaurants unlike here. There’s no Philippine restaurant.\n42\n43 AJ: There are none?\n44\n45 RS: There are none. [Laughs]. But I’ve met some few, uh.\n46\n47 AJ: But there are Thai restaurants.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 31\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: Thai, Vietnamese, and Laos.\n3\n4 AJ: And Laos.\n5\n6 RS: Laos, it’s a big Laos community here.\n7\n8 AJ: Mhm. Hmong.\n9\n10 RS: Hmong. Yeah, Hmong. Laos, yeah. So they’ve been inviting, “When are you moving?” I said like, I\n11 said to my husband, “I would like to move here,” but, uhm, I don’t know what you call this, uhm,\n12 my only problem is with the medical insurance. My husband’s job is really good here.\n13\n14 AJ: Yeah.\n15\n16 RS: So, it’s like we don’t pay much, and like, you know…\n17\n18 AJ: You get a lot of benefits.\n19\n20 RS: I get lots of benefits, you know, so. That’s one thing, and I kind of, we might go to July on\n21 Colorado and after we go to Arizona, I want to see how it is in summer.\n22\n23 AJ: Yeah.\n24\n25 RS: Cause they’re telling me it’s really hot…\n26\n27 AJ: It’s really hot.\n28\n29 RS: … and no humidity.\n30\n31 AJ: Yeah.\n32\n33 RS: And I was like, I don’t want to experience that one, for if, maybe I’ll get back, I’m still a snow\n34 bird.\n35\n36 AJ: Yeah. [Laughs].\n37\n38 RS: [Laughs]. And plus I’m meeting some friends here.\n39\n40 AJ: Yeah.\n41\n42 RS: Like Sakura. We hang out with the Philippine people already so it’s like.\n43\n44 AJ: You’re starting to make your own here.\n45\n46 RS: Yeah. We will just stay around in an apartment right now. We will not move. We will not buy a\n47 house yet here.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 32\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Right.\n3\n4 RS: Let’s see first, let’s go to July and when we get there, we can move there.\n5\n6 AJ: Yeah.\n7\n8 RS: Cause houses are a lot of…\n9\n10 AJ: They’re more, they’re a little cheaper now.\n11\n12 RS: Yeah, here. You know, but then the insurance, the medical insurance is really a big deal for me\n13 here, and my husband’s job, you know.\n14\n15 AJ: And there’s a really strong transgender community here that…\n16\n17 RS: Yeah. And they’re more democrat, liberal here.\n18\n19 AJ: Yeah, it’s very conservative in Phoenix.\n20\n21 RS: Very conservative in Phoenix, you know, so it’s like I have to think about it.\n22\n23 AJ: Yeah. [Laughs]. How did you come out to them? What did you say?\n24\n25 RS: With?\n26\n27 AJ: To your family? To your…\n28\n29 RS: Actually we were talking, actually my husband already told them.\n30\n31 AJ: Okay.\n32\n33 RS: You know, but then I talked to them… I was sharing my story. They were really amazing, you\n34 know, how my husband and I met, you know…\n35\n36 AJ: Mhm.\n37\n38 RS: … 6 years.\n39\n40 AJ: That’s a long time.\n41\n42 RS: that was a long time. I almost give up before.\n43\n44 AJ: Mhm.\n45\n46 RS: You know, there’s no hope for us to get married, you know.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 33\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: Right.\n2\n3 RS: And then they were telling me. They were asking me the question, his nephew, “Why didn’t you\n4 get married in Philippines?”\n5\n6 AJ: Mhm.\n7\n8 RS: So I answered that. We live in a Catholic country. Same sex marriage will not really be\n9 acknowledged. They were like [give dumbfounded look]. It puzzled them.\n10\n11 AJ: Yeah, cause they’re like, you’re not…\n12\n13 RS: I’m like, “I’m a transgender.” “Oh, yeah, yeah,” you know, “You are.” And the wife said, “You’re\n14 a transgender?” “Yeah, I’m a transgender. That’s why we cannot get married in our country.”\n15\n16 AJ: Mhm.\n17\n18 RS: We cannot apply for a spousal visa in the Philippines, you know. He needs to petition here in\n19 America. I can’t get a visa there. And they were like, “Oh, okay.” And I explained to them.\n20\n21 AJ: Mhm. So like your family now, your mom, your dad, I know you said you have struggles with\n22 your mom.\n23\n24 RS: Yeah.\n25\n26 AJ: Where is it now?\n27\n28 RS: Oh, they’re very happy, actually, uhm, like, uhm, before I had my surgery, she bought me\n29 makeup.\n30\n31 AJ: Yeah.\n32\n33 RS: You know, she called me she, daughter.\n34\n35 AJ: Wow. Okay. That’s good. That makes you smile.\n36\n37 RS: That makes me smile. And it takes, it will really take some time for the parents to accept. I\n38 understand because, but I made a promise to them that I’m going to finish my, my degree that I\n39 am going to work and save money, buy a house. I made a promise to them that, you know, I will\n40 really, I made a promise.\n41\n42 AJ: You’re gonna live a good life.\n43\n44 RS: I’m gonna live a good life. I’m gonna take care of myself.\n45\n46 AJ: Contribute to society.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 34\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: Uh, and not to do drugs because drugs are really a big problem 1 in our country.\n2\n3 AJ: Right.\n4\n5 RS: Yeah. That’s why, that’s the promise I made to them that I will not do, I will not do drugs and I\n6 will finish my school.\n7\n8 AJ: Sure.\n9\n10 RS: And I’m really happy right now that I am, I am a, have my dreams come true.\n11\n12 AJ: Did they come to the wedding?\n13\n14 RS: No, they cannot because you need to apply for a visa.\n15\n16 AJ: Okay.\n17\n18 RS: You know. It’s not the same as a passport where you can go where ever you want. You just show\n19 your passport.\n20\n21 AJ: Right.\n22\n23 RS: It’s different when you live in a third world country, you know.\n24\n25 AJ: Mhm.\n26\n27 RS: So you need to apply for a… maybe after two years I can petition them to come here for a visit.\n28\n29 AJ: Sure.\n30\n31 RS: Yeah.\n32\n33 AJ: Uhm, did you have a big wedding?\n34\n35 RS: Just simple, but I had a gown, I wear my gown.\n36\n37 AJ: Uhuh.\n38\n39 RS: And, uh, we had, uh, we only had two, uhm, because we’re still adjusting, we’re new here. I just,\n40 I just arrived after 15 days, we have to get married because you only have like 90 days upon\n41 arrival to be married.\n42\n43 AJ: Oh, okay.\n44\n45 RS: Or else…\n46\n47 AJ: No time to plan.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 35\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: No time to plan. I only have like 90 days or else you get sent back home.\n3\n4 AJ: Mhm.\n5\n6 RS: So we really rushed the wedding like that. You know, but I still wear my gown.\n7\n8 AJ: I wish I could get a picture. Send me a picture of you and your husband.\n9\n10 RS: Yeah. I’m going to. I’m going to send that to you. Yeah. It’s really my, it really made me cry cause\n11 in my country I cannot have, I cannot, it’s not acknowledged.\n12\n13 AJ: Right.\n14\n15 RS: You cannot have this. But here I can have my gender marker changed.\n16\n17 AJ: Mhm.\n18\n19 RS: I can have my name changed?\n20\n21 AJ: Have you done all of those things yet?\n22\n23 RS: We’re still waiting for the green card.\n24\n25 AJ: Okay.\n26\n27 RS: Once it’s all settled.\n28\n29 AJ: Then you can make those changes.\n30\n31 RS: Yeah, it’s really like a dream come true because in my country, I cannot do that.\n32\n33 AJ: Mhm.\n34\n35 RS: You know. So it’s like, oh, really, I still feel lucky that I’m in America.\n36\n37 AJ: I remember talking to Jena, and she was saying she moved to, uhm, San Francisco. She was able\n38 to get a driver’s license.\n39\n40 RS: Yes.\n41\n42 AJ: And, uhm, you know, she…\n43\n44 RS: And her gender marker changed.\n45\n46 AJ: Right. You know, she was a model.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 36\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 RS: Yeah.\n2\n3 AJ: Right. Uhm, very famous model.\n4\n5 RS: Yeah.\n6\n7 AJ: Uh, but, she couldn’t work until she got all of that kind of taken care of.\n8\n9 RS: Yeah. It really takes some time, especially when you move here this way. Uhm, the lawyer told\n10 us that, uh, we just have to wait because it’s really taking some time because of the government\n11 right now. You know, but we called immigration, and they would say that it’s being processed so\n12 we just have to wait.\n13\n14 AJ: Yeah. Good. I hope everything works out.\n15\n16 RS: I hope so too.\n17\n18 AJ: Yeah. Uhm, when’s the first time you ever met another transgender person?\n19\n20 RS: In the Philippines or here?\n21\n22 AJ: Any. Anywhere. First time you ever met.\n23\n24 RS: Oh, I was, we were at the salon and my mom was having her hair and nails done. Then I saw\n25 transgender, uh, taking care of her. And I was just looking at her, and she’s really feminine\n26 because, you know, she’s taking hormones.\n27\n28 AJ: Right.\n29\n30 RS: And I was like, oh my god, that really inspires me.\n31\n32 AJ: Yeah.\n33\n34 RS: It opened my eyes. When I grow up I wanna be like her.\n35\n36 AJ: Uhuh.\n37\n38 RS: I wanna grow my hair long.\n39\n40 AJ: Right.\n41\n42 RS: And have her and have the breasts. After, after she takes, I mean after she’s done, you know,\n43 when my mom, her boyfriend came.\n44\n45 AJ: Mhm.\n46\n47 RS: She has a Philippine boyfriend.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 37\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Oh wow.\n3\n4 RS: It was, I wanna have it like that.\n5\n6 AJ: [Laughs].\n7\n8 RS: I wanna have, I wanna be like her.\n9\n10 AJ: Sure.\n11\n12 RS: And she looks really happy.\n13\n14 AJ: Did you meet her? Did you have the chance to meet her?\n15\n16 RS: I don’t know.\n17\n18 AJ: Just saw her.\n19\n20 RS: I just saw her, but every time we go to that salon she’s there, and I look at her. It’s like she’s my\n21 idol.\n22\n23 AJ: Right.\n24\n25 RS: I wanna be like this lady. She’s really, really feminine. And the way she takes care of herself, and\n26 the way she takes care of people, you know. She’s like my role model at that time.\n27\n28 AJ: Wow.\n29\n30 RS: She inspires me. Oh when I grew up, when I am 17 after, you know, when I be at college, I want\n31 to start the hormones.\n32\n33 AJ: Wow. Did you, so what is the first transgender person you met here in the United States then?\n34\n35 RS: The first transgender I think it, we were at the mall. I was at Target…\n36\n37 AJ: Mhm.\n38\n39 RS: … you know, and I knew she was a transgender. I can sense.\n40\n41 AJ: You can tell.\n42\n43 RS: Yes, I can tell. And she just goes into the makeup section, and she says, she asks me, “Where’s\n44 the, do you know like, where, about lipsticks,” something like that.\n45\n46 AJ: Right.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 38\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: And then I talked to her. And I saw, and I look at her. She’s 1 really confidant.\n2\n3 AJ: Mhm.\n4\n5 RS: She’s African American.\n6\n7 AJ: Oh really?\n8\n9 RS: Yeah, but she’s really beautiful, you know, she has really curvy body…\n10\n11 AJ: Yeah.\n12\n13 RS: … and big ass.\n14\n15 AJ: Oh my goodness.\n16\n17 RS: She’s so sexy, you know. And she was talking to me, you know, I was like, oh, okay.\n18\n19 AJ: What’s her name? Do you know?\n20\n21 RS: No, I didn’t. We were just talking about makeup.\n22\n23 AJ: Just talking about makeup.\n24\n25 RS: Yeah, she was just really friendly to me like, “Hi, how are you doing? Do you know where the\n26 section on the map where lipstick?”\n27\n28 AJ: Mhm.\n29\n30 RS: “Oh, I think it’s in the next isle.” You know I talked to her and then after.\n31\n32 AJ: Mhm.\n33\n34 RS: We were talking already. I said, “Oh, you have really sexy body.”\n35\n36 AJ: Oh, wow.\n37\n38 RS: She said, “Actually I’m feeling fat because of winter.”\n39\n40 AJ: Oh, okay.\n41\n42 RS: “I get more comfortable eating inside the house.” And that’s how the conversation started.\n43\n44 AJ: Right.\n45\n46 RS: Then after I went to the, uh, Minnesota Transgender Coalition Support Group. That’s where I\n47 made Rox, Sakura, Shimmer, and other.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 39\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Uhuh.\n3\n4 RS: That’s the time I get involved here.\n5\n6 AJ: Shimmer. S.H.I.M.M.E.R.?\n7\n8 RS: Yeah, yeah, Shimmer.\n9\n10 AJ: Rox. R.O.X. [Laughs].\n11\n12 RS: Yeah. Rox and Sakura. S.A.K.U.R.A.\n13\n14 AJ: Yeah, yeah.\n15\n16 RS: They’re really, uhm, they’re really friendly.\n17\n18 AJ: Mhm.\n19\n20 RS: You know, they told to me, “Oh, you’re new here,” you know, uhm, like we went to the Laverne\n21 Cox…\n22\n23 AJ: Yeah?\n24\n25 RS: Yeah. They invited me, I mean, they told me about it. So it’s good to get involved.\n26\n27 AJ: Yeah. Do you think you will ever volunteer or work with any transgender organizations to make\n28 life better for trans people?\n29\n30 RS: Yeah, I would love to. I really, I would love to get involved with that.\n31\n32 AJ: Uhuh. Have you ever done it before?\n33\n34 RS: No, I haven’t.\n35\n36 AJ: In the Philippines, in Thailand?\n37\n38 RS: I haven’t done that in the Philippines or Thailand because it’s more different there. It’s more\n39 strong here.\n40\n41 AJ: Mhm.\n42\n43 RS: You know, you’re more politically, uhm...\n44\n45 AJ: Engaged.\n46\n47 RS: … engaged here.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 40\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Yeah.\n3\n4 RS: You know, because you have your laws here. You’re very lucky. American people are really\n5 lucky, you’re really lucky here actually when it comes to that. You’re very fortunate that, you\n6 know, you live in a, you live in this country.\n7\n8 AJ: Well, a lot of people think we don’t have enough rights in this country.\n9\n10 RS: Yeah, but…\n11\n12 AJ: And they’re fighting for more rights.\n13\n14 RS: Yeah. But actually you have the right, you have, you have it here, you know, you just have to\n15 fight more. You know, but I really wanted to participate to that.\n16\n17 AJ: Mhm. Yeah, well there’s lots of opportunities. Uhm, so in, in the Philippines, it’s kind of like,\n18 based on what you’re telling me like people don’t see different between gay or transgender or\n19 lesbian. Are there lesbians?\n20\n21 RS: Yeah, actually they call us all gay.\n22\n23 AJ: Right, everybody is gay.\n24\n25 RS: Everybody is gay. But here it’s different.\n26\n27 AJ: Even the women are gay.\n28\n29 RS: Yeah, even though she’s, she’s a lesbian you’ll always hear gay. We transgender is still gay.\n30\n31 AJ: Still gay.\n32\n33 RS: And when we have the pageant, they call it Mrs. Gay.\n34\n35 AJ: Oh really?\n36\n37 RS: Pageant for transgender is gay.\n38\n39 AJ: Is gay. [Laughs].\n40\n41 RS: But in Thailand it’s different.\n42\n43 AJ: Right.\n44\n45 RS: Miss Stephanie, Miss, uhm, Miss Universe, Miss Super Universe, Miss Beautiful Trans. That’s\n46 how it is there. But in the Philippines all gay.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 41\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: Oh wow. [Laughs].\n2\n3 RS: And the pronouns, it’s like, it’s not that important compared to here. It really matters here. Like\n4 the she, when you call a transgender she, like in the Philippines, you’re still a he. They call you\n5 mister.\n6\n7 AJ: Mm.\n8\n9 RS: It’s really sad sometimes. It hurts, you know.\n10\n11 AJ: Yeah. Uhm, I remember talking to Jena again, and she would tell me that, you know, they would\n12 have, uhm, in her city, in her town, they would have all these pageants for transgender people\n13 all the time, and they would sometimes even be on television.\n14\n15 RS: Yes.\n16\n17 AJ: Is it like that in your community?\n18\n19 RS: Yes. Same.\n20\n21 AJ: Okay.\n22\n23 RS: But, what you call it, is there Miss Gay, you know, it’s not good.\n24\n25 AJ: Cause you’re not gay.\n26\n27 RS: We’re not gay, you know, we’re transgender. We’re woman, you know?\n28\n29 AJ: Uhuh.\n30\n31 RS: It’s really, they have to be more open I hope.\n32\n33 AJ: Mhm.\n34\n35 RS: You know.\n36\n37 AJ: Do you think that, uhm, there’s more, so some people, some transgender people feel like I’m\n38 not gay, I’m not lesbian. I’m transgender. So they don’t feel like they need to work with the\n39 transgender, I mean, with the gay communities or lesbian communities or bisexual\n40 communities.\n41\n42 RS: Mhm.\n43\n44 AJ: What do you think about that? Do you think it’s more power to all be together or if everybody\n45 just goes their separate ways?\n46\n47 RS: I think…\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 42\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Cause the issues are different for transgender.\n3\n4 RS: Issues, yeah, are very different for trans and gay people as well, yeah. But I think it’s better\n5 because we work as one?\n6\n7 AJ: Mhm.\n8\n9 RS: You know? But if you’re a transgender you would really feel in others labeled as all as one…\n10\n11 AJ: Mhm.\n12\n13 RS: … but gay people have their own issues. The transgender have their own issues. The lesbians\n14 they have their own issues. But for me we have to be united because we are fighting for the\n15 same, you know, for equality, for acceptance…\n16\n17 AJ: Mhm.\n18\n19 RS: … you know. For me it’s better that we unite all as one.\n20\n21 AJ: Mhm.\n22\n23 RS: And help each other, you know, whatever gender he, she prefers.\n24\n25 AJ: Right. Are there many, in the Philippines where you grew up, were there many women who\n26 become men?\n27\n28 RS: Oh yes. There are women who become men, but not that much compared to the men who\n29 become female.\n30\n31 AJ: Mhm.\n32\n33 RS: Yeah, it’s a lot in here, I think, I’ve seen like, they transition here more like the, from female to\n34 male.\n35\n36 AJ: Uhuh.\n37\n38 RS: And they really look like a male.\n39\n40 AJ: I know.\n41\n42 RS: My god.\n43\n44 AJ: Yes.\n45\n46 RS: I was like that was so quick for them. After like a year, they fully transition.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 43\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nAJ: Right. The 1 hair, the muscles…\n2\n3 RS: Like with us like trans it takes some time. I mean it’s like 4 years, 5 years…\n4\n5 AJ: Yeah.\n6\n7 RS: … for me to feel like really confidant.\n8\n9 AJ: Uhuh.\n10\n11 RS: Cause I’m really feminine now. It’s really weird sometimes.\n12\n13 AJ: Wow.\n14\n15 RS: You know, there’s a lot…\n16\n17 AJ: Did you do electrolysis? Did you have…\n18\n19 RS: I, yeah, I had, I had laser but, uh, with the hormones I have no more hair. It’s like my hair doesn’t\n20 grow anymore.\n21\n22 AJ: Yeah. Right.\n23\n24 RS: You know, the Adam’s apple, you know, and your body becomes, your skin becomes more soft.\n25 No muscles at all, you know.\n26\n27 AJ: Sure.\n28\n29 RS: I like that.\n30\n31 AJ: Yeah.\n32\n33 RS: That really helps a lot.\n34\n35 AJ: Hm. So what do you think the agenda should be for the transgender community here and then\n36 around the world internationally?\n37\n38 RS: For me, my agenda is that just respect, just the respect for us. I mean like, yeah, some people\n39 see us as different. Some people think that we’re weird. You know, it’s like, but for me it’s like\n40 just respect each other and respect one another.\n41\n42 AJ: Sure.\n43\n44 RS: And whatever we believe, I mean, this is who we are, you know, and respecting who you are as\n45 well.\n46\n47 AJ: Mhm.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 44\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 RS: You know, that’s really my agenda is like we have our own rights as well, you know. We’re still\n3 human, you know, we have the same, we have, we get angry, we get angry as well, you love, we\n4 love as well.\n5\n6 AJ: Mhm.\n7\n8 RS: So just respecting us as we respect you.\n9\n10 AJ: Yeah.\n11\n12 RS: You know.\n13\n14 AJ: Where do you think the transgender community will be maybe in 50 years from now? Do you\n15 think we will have that respect or do you think…\n16\n17 RS: I think so too.\n18\n19 AJ: Or do you think there will still be, eh.\n20\n21 RS: There will always be some people who are conservative. People who are homophobic or really\n22 find us strange or weird when we change, that we transition.\n23\n24 AJ: Mhm.\n25\n26 RS: You know, the others will think it’s a sickness, you know, that, but for me as long as we fight for\n27 what we believe for, you know, and we, uh, what you call it, we will not stop. We will become\n28 more stronger.\n29\n30 AJ: Mhm.\n31\n32 RS: We will have the resistance.\n33\n34 AJ: Resistance.\n35\n36 RS: The resistance.\n37\n38 AJ: Yes.\n39\n40 RS: You know, it will change everything.\n41\n42 AJ: Uhuh.\n43\n44 RS: You know, actually, it’s more changing compared, it’s more accepting compared before.\n45\n46 AJ: Yeah, it is. It’s better.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 45\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: It’s getting better, you know, so it’s like at least, we’re, uhm, I can see that in 1 50 years from now,\n2 we’ll be moving more forward.\n3\n4 AJ: Mhm.\n5\n6 RS: You know.\n7\n8 AJ: Wow.\n9\n10 RS: More open.\n11\n12 AJ: More open.\n13\n14 RS: I hope. I’m really hoping for that. And I want to fight for that.\n15\n16 AJ: Yes. Yes. We need everybody.\n17\n18 RS: We need everybody. That’s why, whether you’re gay, lesbian, cisgender, right? We all fight the\n19 same.\n20\n21 AJ: Mhm.\n22\n23 RS: So we have to join.\n24\n25 AJ: So what do you think about concept, Ashlee, the idea of what some people call passable\n26 privilege? I’m mean, you’re very strikingly beautiful woman.\n27\n28 RS: Mhm.\n29\n30 AJ: Uhm, when you walk down the street here in the United States, most people they just think\n31 you’re a beautiful woman. They don’t think you’re transgender.\n32\n33 RS: Yeah.\n34\n35 AJ: And, and some people, some transgender people feel like that’s a privilege. Like Janet Mock.\n36 She’s very beautiful. Uh, Jena Rosetto. She’s very beautiful. Laverne Cox.\n37\n38 RS: Laverne Cox.\n39\n40 AJ: She’s very, very beautiful.\n41\n42 RS: Yeah.\n43\n44 AJ: Uhm, and, you know, some women aren’t, some transgender women are not that lucky, right?\n45 Like…\n46\n47 RS: Mhm.\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 46\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: They sometimes look like they’re still a guy, and…\n3\n4 RS: Yeah.\n5\n6 AJ: And everybody can tell that they’re transgender. How do you feel about that? Do you think it’s a\n7 real thing or is it…?\n8\n9 RS: It’s really a big, it’s, I’m very privileged, you know, we have like, I’m passable. They call it\n10 passable here?\n11\n12 AJ: Mhm. Yeah, yeah.\n13\n14 RS: You know, it’s like, they won’t’ even know. Like when I was riding a taxi, an uber, “Oh, Happy\n15 Mother’s Day.” I was like, “Okay.”\n16\n17 AJ: Right. [Laughs].\n18\n19 RS: Or, “Do you have kids?” That’s his first question. I was like, I’m privileged when it comes to that.\n20\n21 AJ: Sure.\n22\n23 RS: I feel really bad and sad for other transgender people like they want to dress, wear sexy, I mean,\n24 like something, we all have, like we want to date. We wanna wear skirts or enjoy the summer.\n25\n26 AJ: Right.\n27\n28 RS: Or enjoy the sun, have the sun on our skin. And others get bullied or, you know, they get\n29 discriminated against. I feel sad about that.\n30\n31 AJ: Mhm.\n32\n33 RS: You know, it’s like for me and other people, when I see people who is different or, you know,\n34 when he dress different for me it’s like it doesn’t matter. That’s what he wants to be. That’s how\n35 he defines himself.\n36\n37 AJ: Sure.\n38\n39 RS: You know. So I feel sad when, when I hear stories like when they share stories like they’ve been\n40 bullied or they’re being laughed a lot outside, you know.\n41\n42 AJ: Mhm.\n43\n44 RS: I feel really sad about it. It’s like, if only I could… What can I do to comfort you?\n45\n46 AJ: [Laughs]. Right.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 47\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\nRS: Cause, you know, I’ve been in that situation as well, and it feels really terrible. 1 You feel down.\n2\n3 AJ: Right.\n4\n5 RS: You know, you get, you get scared about it so it’s like… with me I feel privileged, but I feel sad\n6 for some.\n7\n8 AJ: Mhm. Mhm.\n9\n10 RS: You know? But I think more hormones, the more you take hormones and when you take your\n11 surgeries and stuff like that it really changes.\n12\n13 AJ: Some people more hormones is not gonna change very much, but…\n14\n15 RS: Yes, some, some.\n16\n17 AJ: Yeah.\n18\n19 RS: Some really don’t, they’re still like man.\n20\n21 AJ: You, you transitioned when you were 17, which is different from someone who waits until\n22 maybe they’re 50.\n23\n24 RS: Yeah.\n25\n26 AJ: You know? Before, I mean, they wait, they’re afraid. They don’t want to be harassed, you know?\n27 There’s reasons why people wait. But so let me just ask you this last question, Ashlee. Is there\n28 anything that you feel compelled to say that I did not ask you? I want to give you that\n29 opportunity. About your life. About the transgender community. About whatever it is that you\n30 wanna say.\n31\n32 RS: I just wanna, I’m just really privileged, you know, that I have this interview with you. I get to\n33 share.\n34\n35 AJ: Yeah, thank you.\n36\n37 RS: You know, and, uhm, I just want to share that, like I feel really blessed to be in the United States.\n38\n39 AJ: Mhm.\n40\n41 RS: You know, other, some trans people, I mean, some American transgender, they would think\n42 that, you know, that, they feel like they have to, it’s like the government is trying to, to stop\n43 them. You know, it’s like, but for me it’s like, you’re still lucky to be here.\n44\n45 AJ: Yeah.\n46\n47 RS: That’s one thing I would truly want to say. You know like…\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 48\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1\n2 AJ: Cause they don’t know about the other.\n3\n4 RS: They don’t know what’s happening outside of United States.\n5\n6 AJ: Right.\n7\n8 RS: And for me it’s like being here to have, to be married. My marriage will be legally accepted. I can\n9 change my gender marker. I have my name change. I can work here. Like my hair is long. I can\n10 dress however I want. It’s such a privilege for me.\n11\n12 AJ: Yeah.\n13\n14 RS: And I’m really, really thankful for that.\n15\n16 AJ: Wow.\n17\n18 RS: Whatever they fight for here in America, you know, is like, especially with the gender issue, I’m\n19 really, I’m really into it. For me it’s like this one thing that I want, I’m concerned, it’s just a\n20 bathroom.\n21\n22 AJ: Mhm.\n23\n24 RS: It’s just a bathroom, you know? Like, it’s not a big deal actually.\n25\n26 AJ: Uhuh.\n27\n28 RS: You know, it’s like you can go wherever you want.\n29\n30 AJ: Right.\n31\n32 RS: That’s really one thing that I hope the government can, will not move backwards, you know, and\n33 want to help the transgender community about that.\n34\n35 AJ: Mhm.\n36\n37 RS: It’s just a bathroom.\n38\n39 AJ: That’s it. And every human being has to go.\n40\n41 RS: Every human being has to go.\n42\n43 AJ: [Laughs].\n44\n45 RS: I’m really, uhm, what you call it, being a transgender is like you get more confidant when you\n46 are yourself.\n47\nRenan (Ashlee) Sapalaran Interview 49\nThe Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies\nUniversity of Minnesota\n1 AJ: Mhm.\n2\n3 RS: You know? So it’s like you can go whatever bathroom you want.\n4\n5 AJ: Right. [Laughs].\n6\n7 RS: Why do you make it a big issue?\n8\n9 AJ: Why make it a big deal, right? Well, listen, I really appreciate this opportunity to, to learn more\n10 about you, and thank you so much for sharing your, your story, and, uhm, and your life. And,\n11 you’re right, we are blessed, uhm, in this community. We still have a lot more to do.\n12\n13 RS: Yeah.\n14\n15 AJ: Uhm, it’s much better.\n16\n17 RS: it’s much better here than Uganda or Brazil, you know, some transgender get…\n18\n19 AJ: Murdered.\n20\n21 RS: … get murdered.\n22\n23 AJ: Yeah.\n24\n25 RS: You know? That’s really sad, and, uh, what do you call this, uhm, you still feel, you have the\n26 power here. The voice out.\n27\n28 AJ: Yeah.\n29\n30 RS: You know?\n31\n32 AJ: To speak out.\n33\n34 RS: To speak out and fight for resistance.\n35\n36 AJ: Yes. Alright, well thank you, Ashlee.\n37\n38 RS: Thank you so much as well, Andrea.\n39\n40 AJ: Alright, bye bye.\n41\n42 RS: Bye bye.", "_version_": 1710339106963193856, "type": "Moving Image", "collection": "p16022coll97", "is_compound": false, "parent_id": "140", "thumb_url": "https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1369852/thumbnail/entry_id/0_3bpxi0vh", "thumb_cdn_url": "https://dkp5i0hinw9br.cloudfront.net/0bb35177bc22dbfa410e4409b1d7bf2c86fb5c29.png", "children": [ ] }