{ "id": "p16022coll97:244", "object": "https://cdm16022.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getthumbnail/collection/p16022coll97/id/244", "set_spec": "p16022coll97", "collection_name": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "collection_name_s": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "collection_description": "
The Tretter Transgender Oral History Project (TTOHP) collects, preserves, and makes accessible oral histories of gender transgression, especially as theyintersect with race, age, sexuality, citizenship, class, and ability. The project seeks to document the power and vision of trans movements for justice through the stories of activists working to imagine another world.
\n\nThe first phase of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project was led by poet and activist Andrea Jenkins—who became the first Black transgender woman to serve in office in the US after she was elected, in 2017, to the Minneapolis City Council. This phase of the project sought to document the life stories and experiences of transgender and gender non-conforming people, with a focus on people living in the upper Midwest as well as those often excluded from the historical record, including trans people of color and trans elders.
\n\nThe second phase of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project is led by trans studies scholar Myrl Beam. This phase of work seeks to document histories of trans activist movements and politics in the US, and is grounded in the belief that trans movements for justice are about more than rights: they are about survival, and about creating a new, more fabulous, more livable, and more expansive world––one not structured by racialized gender norms. The oral histories collected during this phase document the transformative power of trans movements, and the stories of trans activists who are building them.
\n\nFor more about the project, visit: https://www.lib.umn.edu/tretter/transgender-oral-history-project.
", "title": "Interview with Nico Amador", "title_s": "Interview with Nico Amador", "title_t": "Interview with Nico Amador", "title_search": "Interview with Nico Amador", "title_sort": "interviewwithnicoamador", "description": "Nico Amador is a Latinx trans man, community organizer, trainer, educator, and writer based in Vermont. At the time of this interview, he was the Director of Operations at People's Hub, an online movement school and training hub, and was also pursuing an MFA at Bennington College's Writing Seminars. Prior to his time in Vermont, Amador worked as director of Training for Change, a Philadelphia-based organization proving trainings and education to people engaging in direct action and working in grassroots organizations, and took part in several campaigns for trans justice broadly, including ending discriminatory policies on Philadelphia's public transportation system and helping to develop the grantmaking model of the Trans Justice Funding Project (TJFP.) In this oral history interview, Amador discusses his upbringing outside of San Diego and politicization in community with other students of color at UC Santa Barbara, his work with the Fellowship of Reconciliation and how it led him into training and educatin work, his thoughts on nonprofits and philanthropy and their relationship to social movements, and his work with Training for Change and the Trans Justice Funding Project's Fund for Trans Generations. Additionally, he discusses his experiences in trans communities in Philadelphia and his work on ending discriminatory policy there, and his background as a poet and performer.", "date_created": [ "2021-01-22" ], "date_created_ss": [ "2021-01-22" ], "date_created_sort": "2021", "creator": [ "Amador, Nico (interviewee)" ], "creator_ss": [ "Amador, Nico (interviewee)" ], "creator_sort": "amadornicointerviewee", "contributor": [ "Beam, Myrl (interviewer)", "Billund-Phibbs, Myra (project manager)" ], "contributor_ss": [ "Beam, Myrl (interviewer)", "Billund-Phibbs, Myra (project manager)" ], "notes": "Forms part of the Tretter Transgender Oral History Project, Phase 2.", "types": [ "Moving Image" ], "format": [ "Oral histories | http://vocab.getty.edu/aat/300202595" ], "format_name": [ "Oral histories" ], "dimensions": "1:15:25", "subject": [ "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project Phase 2" ], "subject_ss": [ "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project Phase 2" ], "language": [ "English" ], "city": [ "Bennington" ], "state": [ "Vermont" ], "country": [ "United States" ], "continent": [ "North America" ], "parent_collection": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "parent_collection_name": "Tretter Transgender Oral History Project", "contributing_organization": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contributing_organization_name": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contributing_organization_name_s": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies.", "contact_information": "University of Minnesota Libraries, Jean-Nickolaus Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies. 111 Elmer L. Andersen Library, 222 - 21st Avenue South, Minneapolis, MN 55455; https://www.lib.umn.edu/tretter", "fiscal_sponsor": "This project is funded through the generous support of Tawani Foundation, Headwaters Foundation and many individual donors.", "local_identifier": [ "tretter414_tohp228" ], "dls_identifier": [ "tretter414_tohp228" ], "rights_statement_uri": "http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-EDU/1.0/", "kaltura_video": "1_ejdvttbn", "page_count": 0, "record_type": "primary", "first_viewer_type": "kaltura_video", "viewer_type": "kaltura_video", "attachment": "241.pdf", "attachment_format": "pdf", "document_type": "item", "featured_collection_order": 999, "date_added": "2022-01-24T00:00:00Z", "date_added_sort": "2022-01-24T00:00:00Z", "date_modified": "2022-01-24T00:00:00Z", "transcription": "Nico Amador\nNarrator\nMyrl Beam\nInterviewer\nInterview Date: January 22nd, 2021\nInterview Location: Conducted remotely in Minneapolis, MN and Bennington, VT\nThe Tretter Transgender Oral History Project, Phase Two Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota\nPage 1 of 17\nMYRL BEAM: Cool. And say, thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed by the Tretter Trans Oral History Project. I'm really lucky to get to chat with you. And I'm hoping that you could start us off by just talking a little bit, like, introducing yourself and talking a little bit about the work you do now, and then we'll dive back into history. You're muted.\nNICO AMADOR: How's that?\nBEAM: That's perfect.\nAMADOR: Great. Okay. Yeah, so I'm Nico Amador. I identify as a queer trans man from southern California, a mixed-race Latinx person, and I'm currently living in rural Vermont, which is a place I never expected to live as I was growing up in San Diego and lived in other cities during my life. So I'm surprised to be where I am at this moment in time, but also really grateful for getting to have a really different kind of experience out here in the country. And my current work is a couple of things, but I work for an organization called People's Hub, which is like an online movement school and builds on a lot of the work that I've done as a trainer and a facilitator. And I get to collaborate with a lot of other really amazing people who have been organizers and trainers in in-person settings and are really trying to think about how to move a lot of those techniques online as a way of creating more access for rural people, for people with disabilities, for people who have a hard time for one reason or another getting to be a part of an in-person trainings--which was something the organization had begun to envision pre-COVID, but that during this COVID era has become really important. So I'm excited to be part of that project, and then have also been working for a few years as a coach for grantees of the Fund for Trans Generations, which gives money away to trans-led groups throughout the U.S. and Puerto Rico, I believe. And so that has also been a real, real gift, and a way that I've been able to stay connected to trans movements, even being in a little town where I am, is getting to meet with different groups and support their leadership development. So those are kind of the biggest activist things and involved in right now. And then I've also started an MFA in creative writing, and that's been an important thing for me personally, to just give myself some time to develop as a writer and also just to get to read more. At this stage in my life as an activist, I feel like I spent a lot of time kind of getting a lot of, like, lived experience under my belt and learning a lot of useful skills, and I'm just finding a need now to kind of go back to some book learning and some intellectual development, which has been really feeding me a lot these last few months.\nBEAM: Cool. That's awesome. Can you talk--can you take us back to where you grew up and when and how the place you grew up shaped you? Page 2 of 17\nAMADOR: Yeah. So I was born in 1982 and grew up in San Diego, California, in kind of a, you know, like, a little bit on the outskirts of the city. So it wasn't really in the downtown or the coastal area; I was a little bit more in the suburbs and kind of like, right-- I would say, like, sort of right on the border between where San Diego stops being suburban and becomes more of a rural area further east. And I think--I look back on that time and I think my experience, you know, like everyone, wherever you grow up, it just feels like a kind of normal-- that's like your normal experience. But I think looking back there's a few things that stand out to me. I think one of them is that it was a very conservative area. I know in my school district at different moments in time there was, like, pushback against any kind of like clubs or resources for LGBT youth. And so that was just like, there was just never a moment, I think, in my young adulthood where there was even like a place where I could see access to other queer people. So I didn't, you know, I didn't come out as a young person and I don't think I really began questioning my identity until later on. And I think that had a lot to do with just, like, zero visibility around any kind of queer identity, not just trans identity. And I think that has also meant that at the point where I've found community at different points in my life, I've really valued it. And then I think to really look back at who I was as a younger person and, and remember that sense of difference and isolation, and, you know, and struggle to feel a sense of belonging around the people that I had access to. And so I think at the point where I, like, found friendships that felt really authentic, or found connection or invitation into different communities that I've been a part of, that's just been such a gift and a motivator for me to, like, continue to be involved and give back to those spaces. I think the other big thing is that where I grew up was kind of one of the entry points for folks who were entering the US from Mexico undocumented and on foot, crossing through the desert--that there, you know, I was just kind of living in this weird zone where it was like, that was actually a crossing point where people who were coming over the border on foot would kind of pass through this area on their way trying to get to the city. And so there was a lot of Border Patrol around, and that was just, like, a very visible part of my experience. And half my family is Mexican, so I think there wasn't a lot of discussion about what it meant to live in that kind of place or to be around Border Patrol, you know, it was not, like, a thing that my family discussed, but I--there were some very specific incidents where I saw people being chased by Border Patrol and, you know, heard a lot of kind of anti-immigrant statements being made by people around me, and, you know, just like having that feeling of, \"You're saying this about Mexicans, but I'm Mexican. What does that mean?\" and kind of not knowing what to do with that in the moment. But I think it was like one of those early things that kind of made me more aware of injustice, I guess. And so by the time I was old enough to start formulating my own politics, the idea of civil rights became very important to me. You know, just had a sense of like, \"Yeah, there's there's things that I've been exposed to where people have been in really unjust situations, and I want to do something about that.\" And I Page 3 of 17\nthink it took me a while to build a deeper analysis than that, but I think there was kind of those moments early on that triggered some sort of interest in politics and social justice.\nBEAM: Cool, that's exactly what I kind of want to ask you about. Because I think in this country where so many systems are aligned to keep people demobilized, what pulled you into activism, both conceptually and practically? Like, how did you develop your analysis and how did you tap in? What did that look like when you were a young person and how did it begin to evolve?\nAMADOR: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of that political awakening and kind of coming into more of an analysis and organizing did happen at the point where I was an undergrad in college. I went to U.C. [the University of California] Santa Barbara, and, you know, at the time that I applied and decided to go there, I had no idea the kind of rich history of activism that that campus has had. But it's really played a significant role in, you know, previous moments in organizing around, like, Black Power in the seventies, the Chicano student movement, and then a little bit before I came to campus, a lot of, a lot of organizing around affirmative action for students of color. So I didn't know that I was sort of walking into this, you know, this very rich history on that campus, but got there and, you know, kind of had a vague sense that I wanted to be involved in social change work in some way or another and, you know, didn't have a lot of models for that. So I think at the time it was like, \"I'm going to become a civil rights lawyer, because that's the way to make change in the world, and that's the way people have impacted these bigger dynamics of injustice.\" And so that's kind of how I was orienting. And I think the only way I really knew to plug in at the time was to get involved with the campus Democrats. So a lot of my earliest organizing work was, like, Get Out the Vote stuff, you know, like, registering voters door-to-door in the community around campus and on campus, and, you know, just doing kind of like basic campaigning for some of the Democratic candidates. So that, you know, I think that was really good experience to just, like, start learning how to talk to people and how to engage people in caring about elections and that kind of thing. But I think even as I was doing it I had a sense that like, \"There's gotta be more than this,\" you know, and so I think I was just sort of curious and trying different things out and got connected to some other, kind of, I guess Res Life organizing around just creating safe spaces in the residence halls. And that was like, through that group was one way I just started learning more about different identity politics, and just like, more sensitivity to privilege, and how different people experience oppression, and had just like a really wonderful mentor who had been very involved in campus organizing and I think kind of saw that I was looking for something more than what we were doing through this Res Life group. And she was like, \"These are the student organizers you need to go talk to.\" Like, \"Go get involved in this group.\" And so it was at her encouragement that I got connected to more student of color organizing that was a little more radical and a little more grounded in grassroots organizing models on campus. And that was the thing that really open the door to, I Page 4 of 17\nthink, what became really my life's work after that. Just a lot of just like really smart, strategic organizing that was focused around some very clear goals for trying to pressure, like, the California state government to put more spending into education and to take that away from prison spending; to do some things to address kind of the growth of militarism and military recruitment on campuses post 9/11; and I mean, just like other kinds of like resourcing and access issues for students of color. But, you know, like, all that was happening in a kind of community setting where there was also just like a lot of emphasis on relationship building, on, you know, kind of integrating artistic expression and poetry, and learning about organizing. So there was also just like a lot of hosting of like organizing trainings and supporting student leaders to, yeah, to really think about the approach that they were taking to these different pieces of work, and not just kind of going to a like, \"Let's do a march every time we need a tactic,\" you know. I think there's a lot of really good coaching that I got as a student organizer to kind of think about, like, you know, what are the range of organizing tactics and approaches? So that was just really energizing for me, and I think just really shifted my sense of what I wanted to do. And I think I started to see that grassroots organizing, in some ways, can be a much more powerful and integrated and efficient way of making change than going the legal route. You know, civil rights cases can take years and years before they actually have a significant impact. And I think I was just kind of experiencing for myself, like, there's a lot of transformation that can happen at a grassroots level and through people power. So I think that was, that was big for me, and I think those were also the circles of people that, you know, just helped me gain a better awareness of myself as a person of color, as a biracial person, and, you know, those were also the first circles of people that I came out to.\nBEAM: Yeah, I was about to ask that also, because it sounds like you were also coming out as queer and potentially trans also during that time, and so I wonder if, because you were in this moment of political awakening and learning, that those have also always been like politicized identities for you, and how they came together in your, in your sense of yourself as an activist?\nAMADOR: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's, that's a great question. I think that that's true. I think that they have always been politicized identities. And I think, you know, I'm certainly someone that experiences a lot of white passing privilege, and so that's something I've always been aware of and had to kind of navigate or think about as I've also, I've been so kind of connected and embedded in people of color organizing circles, and that has really felt like kind of my primary home for a lot of my political work. But I think...I think for me, you know, coming into that identity, or my sense of a person of color was really, in so many ways, linked to a value around solidarity. So, you know, it wasn't so much about claiming a victim identity; I think it was about being able to kind of see myself as impacted by oppression in the sense of things that my family has gone through, and also a way that I feel like I'm resisting assimilation into Page 5 of 17\nwhite cultural values and kind of white supremacist ways of thinking and being in the world. But I think, yeah, I think in those circles, I think it was also just about seeing that identity and those, that connection to others as something that really prompted commitment, you know, in a lot of ways, and saying like, \"I'm connected to these lineages of people and of organizers, and there were other people before me that made it possible for me to have these experiences and this articulation of who I am, and that means I have to keep showing up and keep giving back.\" And I think a lot of the students I was organizing with at the time also...Just really passed on, I think, a value of, like, you should always be developing the next person who's going to replace you. And so I think that that was another piece of it, or, like, I think another way that those parts of my identity became politicized, is, you know, thinking in terms of like, \"I'm receiving gifts from other people who are in my community and I'm also obligated to be thinking about who's coming after me and passing those gifts on.\" So I think that, like, that happening both in a kind of like person-to-person way, but also thinking in terms of like these broader cultural movements, and, like, learning from like a lot of women of color writers and people who are doing a lot of like grassroots work to kind of archive their own experiences, and then thinking about how to foster that same type of, like, documentation and writing in the circles that I was a part of.\nBEAM: So how did that-- after, after college, what was next for you and how did you begin to live into the, like, values that you had developed?\nAMADOR: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so after college, I moved to Oakland and spent a couple of years working with an organization called The Fellowship of Reconciliation, which historically has been kind of like a national peace and justice organization going back to I think like World War I. It was founded to support conscientious objectors, and then played a role in the civil rights movement and, you know, has been a resource for different types of movements at different moments in time. When I was working there, I was specifically working with a project that was supporting, like, a human rights accompaniment project in a rural community in Colombia, the country of Colombia, and then also, like, doing a lot of education in the U.S. around U.S. foreign policy in Latin America, and militarism, and, you know, the ways the U.S. government has destabilized a lot of countries in Latin America. So that, you know, I think that was really-- I think that was formative in terms of...I want to say, I think in, like, making concrete my commitment to bringing an international lens to a lot of the work that I do. So I think I've done a lot of work that's very, like, U.S. based, but I think, I think there's always been this kind of interplay between like the work that I'm doing on a local or national scale and trying to connect that to what's, what's happening internationally. I think that, you know, the other big thing that happened to me as part of that project is, I just found myself, like, the more organizing I was doing and just kind of feeling out what it meant to work in that capacity, I think there's a lot of Page 6 of 17\ndirections I could have gone in, but I think the role that I kept being drawn to was doing a lot of education and training and I've been really enjoying that. So yeah, while I was at the Fellowship of Reconciliation I ended up doing, like, leading a lot of retreats for other young people to learn about some of the policy things that I was working on, but also doing, you know, kind of...You know, like, anti-oppression training on different, like, identity-based issues. And I was just, you know, I think enjoying being in that kind of facilitation educator role. And so it was through that project that I first got sent to facilitator training with Training for Change, which ended up being the organization that I worked for for like, you know, I think about the next ten years after I attended that first training with them. So yeah, that was interesting, that I think I set off to be a grassroots organizer, and I have done that work at various points in my activist career, but I think, you know, very quickly also learned that working in this other capacity as a facilitator or a trainer was also something that felt really...compatible, I think, with the kinds of things I could offer the spaces that I was in. Yeah.\nBEAM: What about that experience of the training facilitation or the, you know, [MB gestures] facilitation training, and then the subsequent, like, move into doing facilitation and training-- like, what appealed to you about it intellectually, like in terms of the principles of it, and then also, what, what about you really became enlivened by it, you know?\nAMADOR: Yeah. Well, both my parents are teachers. So I was told growing up, like, over and over again, \"You're going to end up being a teacher,\" and I think I was really like, \"No, definitely not. I'm going to do something else.\" But I do think there's something about just, like, the household I grew up in, and maybe something that's kind of natural to my personality about, like, being in some sort of teaching role, even though I think facilitation is like a, you know, much more informal version of that. But yeah, I think...I think part of what attracted me to it was that I was still going through my own process of transformation, you know, like, I came out as trans when I was I think about 22, so a little bit after I graduated college. So I think there was just, I was still figuring myself out, you know, I was very much in process, and I think getting a lot out of the organizing work. But I think the times when I was in spaces that were more set up for just like exploration of identity, and kind of relationship building, and, you know, just more kind of deeper interpersonal work, I felt so supported by those spaces and getting to be in conversation with people, and just felt like those are the kind of places where I just was able to get a really different kind of insight into what was happening for me and how to even start talking about that or making sense of it in my life. So I think there was something that was kind of like, I need these spaces and therefore I'm also drawn to facilitating them and helping to set them up for other people. And I think, you know, maybe...Maybe one of the other things about it was that-- I'm sure other trans people can probably relate to this-- but I think there's something that happened for me as a young person who wasn't quite sure what my identity Page 7 of 17\nwas, and was always, you know, maybe a little kind of insecure, questioning of my place in things. Just, like, I did a lot of hanging back and observing people, or like, being in school, just always trying to kind of assess, like, what are the--what are the communication norms here? You know, like, what's the way to fit in?\nBEAM: Yeah.\nAMADOR: Like, there's just a lot of calculation happening that involved, like, watching people very carefully in order to kind of figure out how to navigate. And so I think there's something about, like, having been so conditioned to that, that when I stepped into a trainer role, I just had a very acute sense of group dynamics and I think the ability to really like read a room with a lot of...Yeah, like, just being able to catch a lot of the nuances of what was happening between people, and also being able to put myself in the kind of headspace of like, \"Here's what I think is going for this person based on how, what their behavior is,\" and to do that not with like a lot of judgement, but just a sense of like, \"I think this person might need this kind of support,\" or, \"That person might be reacting to dynamic that's happening here.\" And, you know, just kind of like be able to hold that and find a way to be useful in that. So I think that that--you know, I think that was just maybe something kind of, not totally unique to my own experience, but definitely a thing that I brought to that role is to be able to, like, see people and see groups in a way that helped me figure out, like, how to help those groups be stronger together, or kind of like unpack the tensions that might be sitting there.\nBEAM: That's a really astute observation about the relationship between being a, like, gender-nonconforming kid and that ability to have an amazing sense for unspoken norms.\nAMADOR: Yeah.\nBEAM: So as you were coming into these sort of progressive movement spaces that weren't specifically queer and trans, but that were, you know, oftentimes POC-focused, or just leftist, did you have like a community of trans folks that were, that you felt connected to?\nAMADOR: I would say, like...I did and I didn't. Or maybe a better way to say it is that it just took a while to build that. I think at the time, at the point in time when I was living in Oakland, I was like connecting to some Latinx trans folks and I was kind of like casual friends with queer and trans folks through those circles, but I don't think those folks ever kind of like became really close supports. And when I decided to move to Philadelphia to get more involved with Training for Change, I think the other big piece of that is that West Philly has long had a pretty visible and active queer and trans community. And so having visited a couple of times before making Page 8 of 17\nthat decision to move, I could see that it was like a really different setting than I'd been able to access before, and just like had a sense of like, \"If I move to this neighborhood, there will be other queer and trans folks around and that might be helpful at this point in my life.\" So yeah, I think, you know, when I first moved to West Philly, like, you know, I didn't have that right away, but I felt like I was able to build it over the course of a couple of years just-- just by virtue of being in a neighborhood where there was a lot of really like active queer and trans networks and also just the proximity to folks that you get to know just by going to house parties, or hanging out the local coffee shop, or whatever. So yeah.\nBEAM: [starts speaking on mute; gestures] Muted. Did you move to West Philly for a job at Training for Change, or did you move to West Philly and then get a job eventually at Training for Change?\nAMADOR: I moved to West Philly with an invitation, I would say, to be involved with Training for Change in a way that was not paid. [both laugh] The organization was going through a really interesting moment. So the founder, George Lakey, is a really incredible Quaker activist who has been part of so many movements. He had run Training for Change for I don't know how many years, at least 15 years or something at that point, and was retiring from his position as executive director and kind of moving into some form of retirement, I guess, as an activist, although he continued to be very active in lots ways. And so I think the organization was just kind of like in a moment where it wasn't sure what it was going to become without its founder, and there was some people that had been a big part of its training collective, but there was just some uncertainty of what to do. So the point where I got invited into it was like, \"The organization is changing. We don't know what that means. We're looking for kind of like some fresh energy, you know, some new people who want to get more mentorship to become movement trainers, and also maybe have an interest in helping to kind of steward the organization into its next chapter.\" So yeah, so I think I was like attracted to that at the time. I was just like, you know, I'm getting to plug in at this moment where the organization was reshaping itself. But yeah, I would say it was like two years in before it turned into a paid role of any kind.\nBEAM: What were you doing for money for those two years? Did you, were you just like working jobs?\nAMADOR: Yeah. I was working--I was working at the Borders cafe [laughter] as a barista. And I was also doing some work with an organization called the Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors, which had a strong anti-militarism focus, and my primary role there was like answering a hotline for people who were in the military who were trying to get out and needed counseling about, like, what the regulations said and what their options were, based on Page 9 of 17\nwhether they were trying to get out for a medical reason or for any other variety of reasons like religious beliefs, anything else. So yeah. Yeah, so I was involved with that group for a little while in a paid role, and then yeah, just trying to work other random jobs to get by for a while.\nBEAM: As you started to do work with Training for Change and had the opportunity to work with organizations doing all different kinds of stuff, and people in particular, what are some of the lessons that you learned for your own sense of what works and what doesn't for leftist movements? That's a huge question, I realize. [speaking at the same time]\nAMADOR: Yeah, huge question.\nBEAM: But like...I guess, like, what were the--did you have any like realizations that were like, \"Oh, this is a bad idea,\" or, \"I wish that we could put money into this kind of stuff,\" or whatever?\nAMADOR: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there's some basic things that for anyone that's, I think, had good mentorship as an organizer, seem kind of basic, but I also think there's just so many grassroots organizations that come together around a cause and it's--people are just bringing whatever they bring to that. And so it's not always the case that groups have a very sophisticated approach to how they're thinking about things. But I would say some of the big lessons that stand out for me are...I think like the very basic things: like, groups needing to really know what their goals are and to have a sense of like, \"We're going to put our energy to influence something concrete.\" I think there's a lot of organizations that come together and have this sense of like, \"If we just...If we just educate people, you know, if we just talk to enough people about how unjust the situation is, that will be enough to change it.\" And I just think that, you know, that kind of education and visibility work can be helpful to a point, but I think groups really have to learn how to orient around where power sits, you know, and be willing to think about how to challenge or shift some of the dynamics related to who holds power around a particular issue or a particular situation. I think another thing that I've done a lot of training on, or talking to groups about, is just like really thinking about what kinds of tactics or approaches makes sense for the thing they're trying to influence, like, the person they're trying to influence, the moment that they're in as a movement or as a campaign, and really trying to draw on some of the lessons of other movement leaders. I think we can look back at things like the March on Washington and say, like, \"Wow, that was such an amazing moment in time and this kind of beautiful gathering,\" and the idea of the march as being this very powerful thing, which it was in that situation. But I think if you really look at the history, some of the thinkers behind it, like Bayard Rustin, really had a sharp analysis of like, \"Why this march at this time?\" and that for thousands of Black people to be gathering in one location was Page 10 of 17\nactually like a form of civil disobedience even though the the march itself was nonviolent and didn't lead to arrests, that, you know, that was a risk that they were taking to gather in those kinds of numbers and really broke a kind of social norm, or like a rule that had really been enforced by white supremacist laws at that time. And so I think there's...There's...The kinds of, like, movement moments that we look back at and that really stand out, I think, were often the result of really crafted thinking about strategy. And so I think I've done a lot of coaching with groups to say it's not enough to just say, \"This was a really cool tactic that some other group did at one moment in time, so let's just take that and apply it to what we're doing.\" It's really about kind of sitting down and thinking about, like, \"What are the dynamics of this moment and what kind of intervention will help illuminate or tell the story of the thing that we're trying to change, or create a symbolic moment that really kind of stands on its own for this particular struggle that we're in?\" So I think yeah, I think doing a lot of work with groups around not just kind of cookie cutter approaches. And then I think the third thing that stands out, which I think sometimes [is] the hardest, is really getting groups to think...Think in terms of like, \"Our job is to make our consensus, like, to build consensus around the thing that we're trying to change through broad coalition building, through really learning to work with partners and allies that may not agree with us on other things or that we may not be kind of like easy or fast friends with,\" but to really think about, \"Who are the players in our landscape that have some--that we could build some common ground with, or that have some vested interest in the thing that we're working with? And not just to always go to the, the kind of usual suspects or the people that we like the best or agree with us the most.\" And really pushing groups and challenging groups to think about, \"How do we build alliances, you know, even in ways that might challenge us in some ways, or force us to kind of grow our thinking about something or grow our kind of comfort zone of who we're willing to hang out with?\" And, you know, not in the sense of like compromising our values, but just in terms of thinking about what it really means to build real solidarity for the sake of creating mass movements around particular issues.\nBEAM: That's so interesting, because I remember listening to Trishala Deb at this conference called Queer Dreams and Non-Profit Blues some number of years ago, and she was talking about how within the queer and trans movement, there are really like two movements: in one, the tactics are like super tactical and about like legislation and court cases, and really don't involve a mass movement. And then there's mass mobilization kinds of organizing, but that that's just a really, like, anemic a part of queer and trans mainstream spaces, you know. And I'm reflecting on the ways that the lessons that you drew from that work have been so not really a part of what we think of as mainstream queer and trans organizing, especially in the last 20 years as things have gotten super corporate and focused on marriage and litigation and whatever.\nPage 11 of 17\nAMADOR: Right.\nBEAM: So can you talk about what it was like to be an E.D., which is a really different kind of work than being a facilitator?\nAMADOR: Yeah, yeah, yeah! I mean, my experience was so unusual in a lot of ways. I think lots of people have to kind of work their way up in the non-profit world to become the-- maybe not so much in like smaller queer and trans spheres; like, I do know a lot of people who were E.D.s at a fairly young age-- but I did come into it in kind of a weird way where it's like I left an organization where I was an intern, had some kind of like minor jobs in-between, and then basically became an E.D. right after that [laughter] with Training for Change, because the organization had gone through this kind of big restructuring with the founder leaving and there being very little resource for the organization. I think that it was kind of like, there was like a shell [INAUDIBLE] that left; there was like a really strong training methodology and curriculum and some kind of like core pieces of work that could be transferred on, and I think a solid reputation as a training organization. And then there was people who had been the trainers, but there was no office, there was like $10,000 in the bank or something, and a real need to kind of like reinvent the organization with new leadership. And so...I think it was like, being young, and having the time, and having that kind of audacity to be like, \"Sure, I'll do that,\" and kind of like no one else wanting to have to step into that kind of director position for so little pay. So it was myself and Daniel Hunter were the first co-directors that were hired after the founder left, and Daniel, who was only a year older than me, had been involved longer as a trainer of Training for Change. But we just kind of took on this project together as co-directors. And I think our--I think our original pay was like $10 an hour for 10 hours a week [both laugh] to be the E.D.s. Which sounds--I should frame it to say that that sounds extremely exploitative, and I didn't relate to it that way. Like I think it was, it was a leadership position I wanted. I think it was a challenge that I wanted to take on, and I had other ways that I was being supported at the time, in terms of like having really low-cost housing in Philly through some of the kind of like activist land trusts that had been started in the eighties, and so having like very subsidized housing, being able to keep my living expenses really low so that I could really throw myself into this kind of project and not worry so much about how much it was paying. And I look back and I'm super grateful that, like, at the age of 25 I was trusted with that kind of opportunity, and the other folks who were involved in the organization as trainers were willing to like really respect and support the leadership of someone who was much younger than them. Like I was definitely the youngest person in the organization at the time that I came into that role. And I think...I think the other thing I appreciate about that experience is that the culture of Training for Change was not one of like a really traditional non-profit. So I think there was a legacy of working class leadership in the organization. The previous--the founder really identified Page 12 of 17\nstrongly with kind of working class values and not a kind of like more traditional, corporate model of non-profit management. Others who were involved in the organization had been involved in a lot of like cooperatives and collectives and stuff like that. So I think there was really like a spirit of, \"We are going to invent the process that works for us as an organization, and there's not like a right way to manage this. It's about kind of bringing what you know as an organizer and how to move people and resources and to kind of bring your best systems thinking to building the future of the organization.\" So I think, I think that was really helpful, is that I wasn't put in that role and felt like I have to know what it is to, like, lead a strategic planning process, or even do a lot of grant writing or something like that. We were just kind of like starting with, like, the resources and the donors we had, and the ability to bring in some income through the kind of trainings we were doing and just kind of built from there, so. Yeah. I mean, I look back and I'm like, it seems wild that I took that on. You know, there was a lot of learning that I had to do along the way, but I think I also gained a lot by being able to come at it with a sense of creativity and a sense of like, there's [not] one way to manage a non-profit.\nBEAM: Were you co-directors the whole time that you were in that role?\nAMADOR: No. Daniel was pretty clear when we started that he was, like, taking it on to help support the organization to kind of take its next step forward but didn't, didn't want to stay on and was also kind of agreeing to be a co-director to help support me into that role. So I think we were co-directors for maybe two or three years together, and then...And then he just kind of stepped back and was part of the training group, but not on staff. And so I was like the sole director for a few years after that and then was working with a woman, Celia Kutz, who kind of came on as a Program Coordinator and then supported her to become my co-director and then she became the next E.D. So yeah. So it kinda fluctuated, whether I was with--\nBEAM: I know Celia.\nAMADOR: Yeah, yeah!\nBEAM: Celia and I were in Minneapolis at the same time.\nAMADOR: Okay, great! Yeah. Minneapolis folks, yeah. Yeah, so it was kind of a fluid model and, you know, I think I was just sort of playing the role that felt needed at different moments.\nBEAM: In recent years-- like, tell me-- So I know that you, in recent years, have been doing work with TJFP, with the Trans Justice Funding Project, as a grant-making fellow, and also doing Page 13 of 17\ncoaching with folks who get funding from the Fund for Trans Generations. Is that right, both of those things?\nAMADOR: Yeah.\nBEAM: How did you, how did you come in-- Let's talk about TJFP first. How did you come into doing that work, and what has that been like?\nAMADOR: Yeah. Well, I guess I should make a small correction there and say, my role at TJFP has mostly been to be the facilitator of the grant-making project. [Both talking at once] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Gabriel Foster, executive director and founder of TJFP, is a friend of mine who I met through kind of like mutual friends in Philly and we built a friendship over a couple years. And at the point where he was thinking about launching TJFP, kind of reached out to me and I remember-- I think I might have been visiting him in Brooklyn or something-- we were just, I have this memory of taking this walk with him, and him kind of telling me about this project that he was envisioning. At the time it was like, \"We want to give $50,000 away to trans-led groups; our ideal model for that would be throwing cash out of a van, you know? [laughter] Like, just like no strings attached. We just want to put money in people's hands. But we'll probably need a process that's a little more...A little more formal than throwing cash out of a van. And we're going to need a facilitator for it; we know that that's a skill set that you have. Would you think about coming on as a facilitator?\" So yeah, I mean, I think that that's--that's been one of the really interesting things about coming into my work with Training for Change, and having had a lot of support and practice in this trainer/ facilitator role, and then realizing, like, that's actually a really important skill set-- that for a long time, not a lot of other folks in the trans community have had a lot of support to build, especially in POC circles. So it felt like a big honor to be asked, and it felt like a big honor to step into this role and be someone that would create the process for that kind of grant making. So that was something that I got to work on with TJFP for the first, like, I think it's headed into year ten. So I think I was on board with TJFP for the first nine years as a facilitator, and kind of helped to shape, like, the general, like, agenda, and a group process for that grant-making. And a couple years in started working with Andrea Jenkins as a co-facilitator, and then Glo Ross was another person that came in in a different, a little bit later point to work with me as a co-facilitator, and then in the last year had been part of handing off that facilitation practice to Cathy Kapua, who's now one of the directors of TJFP, and another woman, Zakia McKensey. And, you know, and I think a few years back, I think it was very clear to me that it was important for more trans women of color to be visible leadership in TJFP, and that I needed to start thinking about kind of stepping out of a facilitator role. But I think it just, it took us a while to kind of figure out, like, who would be the kind of ideal team to step in and to give enough time for that kind of hand-off and support. So Page 14 of 17\nyeah, I mean, I think...I think that work has meant so much to me to get to be a part of helping to fund trans movements. I think especially having done some organizing work pre-TJFP and just like knowing how little resource there was for it at that time, and also just like learning so much from that project. Like, I think, I think Gabriel and other people who have been involved have just created a really special model of like how to build a lot of intention and care and participation into this kind of grant-making process. And so as much as I was bringing to it as a facilitator, I felt like I also, like, learned so much or absorbed so much by just getting to work with colleagues who were just, like, thinking so carefully about that process at every level of it.\nBEAM: And then what has your work with Fund for Trans Generations been?\nAMADOR: Yeah, so that's primarily been as a coach. So all of the grantees, like, all the organizations who get funding, are offered the opportunity to get matched with a, I think what was originally sort of framed as an organizational development coach, with the understanding that, like, a lot of projects get started and it's great for them to have, like, the funding and the cash in hand to do their work, but there's also other kinds of support or skill building that groups might need. And so yeah, I see my role as kind of like a peer support and just like being available as a resource to the groups that I get matched up with to kind of talk through any parts of their work that they're just having questions about how to develop, or need guidance, or need to find resource, or, you know, things that kind of go beyond like the money aspect to be able to make their work successful. And...What else was I going to say about that? Yeah, and I think one of the things that we've learned as coaches for that project is that, like, I think--I think a lot of trans organizations...Are not necessarily at a place where the support that they need is, like, organizational development in the sense of like, \"Let's sit down and figure out what's your funding strategy, or what's your communications plan,\" or some of the more kind of like standard areas of what would be considered, like, non-profit organizational planning or management. Like, a lot of groups need help thinking about, like, managing conflict or crisis among their members. A lot of groups maybe need, like, their E.D. or their leaders need someone to like check in with them and tell them they're doing a great job and, you know, just like help them build their confidence and be kind of a friend and accompanier. I just think, yeah, I think the range of like where--where organizations are at in their development, and the kind of work that they're doing and the kinds of situations they're managing are just, like, on such a wide spectrum that I think was really-- through this project, kind of like broadened our definition of what it means to do this kind of coaching work with groups. And I think for all the people who've been involved in that capacity have just kind of brought their own judgement and intuition, that like, how to best be in partnership and collaboration with different kinds of groups.\nPage 15 of 17\nBEAM: Having been locked out of mainstream funding for so long, trans organizations have, like, there are these acute struggles obviously, and then there are also these like super creative ways that organizations have envisioned their work. And I'm wondering if there are any particular people or organizations that you think are just super cool that you have been exposed to through your work with those two organizations?\nAMADOR: Yeah, so many. But I think some of the standouts are the ones that I, like, I really admired a lot by getting to be in conversation with them as a coach. The Knights & Orchids Society in Selma, Alabama has just blown me away with the work that they've done in the four years that I've known them. They're a Black, trans-led organization in the South, in the community of Selma. And are just, like, thinking, I think, in really dynamic ways about how to approach, like, organizing work and advocacy work in a way that's also just like very linked in to what some of the immediate needs are in their community. So they're, like, thinking a lot about how to reach different parts of the community for HIV testing, for other kinds of, like, support services and that kind of thing, but also thinking about, like, you know, the long-term picture of that. So it's not enough just to like, go to the clubs and test people. It's like, they've also cultivated this whole program so that more trans women of color can get trained into being the ones who were doing the testing and get paid for that work so that it's, like, it's offering more kind of employment and income to members of the community, and then also putting those members of their community into places where they're just going to be like better people to get others tested, or to make those connections and build those relationships. And at the same time, they're, like, building relationships with their city council members in Selma and advocating for things like community gardens and then having a whole vision for how that can then feed back into their, like, food pantry and assistance with, like, offering food to people. So I just think it's like-- like, they've just done some really smart work in a way that I think...In some ways, like, it's challenged my whole way of thinking about organizing, because I think I was trained into a way of thinking very much within a campaign model of like, there's a policy, and, you know, there's a very specific thing that you're trying to change, and so you're targeting that in a very kind of focused way. And I think that...I think just given, like, in the trans community that, like, we need to be fighting for those kinds of changes at the same time that, like, we also just like have to pay attention to the fact that, like, people don't have stable housing, that people are not able to access employment. There's just like a lot of other basic needs that are not getting met, and so we really are not going to be leaving people behind. We have to have ways of building organizations or thinking about organizing in a way that, that takes those other needs into account and that isn't keeping the kind of like service provision so siloed from the organizing work. And I think TKO is just a really outstanding model for some other way of, like, bringing those pieces together. And they work really closely with another organization in Memphis called My Sistah's House, which is led by mainly by Black trans women who are raising Page 16 of 17\nmoney to build tiny houses to be able to offer more emergency housing or temporary housing for for a lot of trans community members there in Memphis who need that. And, you know, I also just really admire that work. I think housing justice is just like a really big piece of the picture for where we need to go as a trans movement. I think especially in addressing this question of, like, safety for trans women of color and preventing more murders and deaths. Like, I just think that that's a question that as a movement we need to get really serious about, and I think finding ways of providing people with safe housing is a really big part of that, that solution.\nBEAM: That's awesome. So I know that our time together is dwindling, and I want to have a chance to talk with you about, about poetry, about--\nAMADOR: Yeah.\nBEAM: Like, what made you decide to really invest in that part of yourself and in that kind of work, and how is it connected for you to movement work? Yeah, just talk a little bit about like, what, what gave you the courage to like, invest in that, in giving yourself that space and time to become a poet? And yeah.\nAMADOR: Yeah, I mean, like, to be totally honest about it, I still really struggle with giving myself that permission and that time. Like, I think there's a part of me that's just so pragmatic, you know, and is just like, if I'm not working on, like, something that feels like very tangibly political and that is like, moving things forward in very clear ways, I get antsy and I, you know, have my own kind of struggle with, like...Yeah, just I think like as an activist, having that question, \"Am I doing enough? Am I having an impact in ways that matter?\" And so to invest in something like poetry has actually been an internal struggle for me because I think in the, the time is spent actually doing it, it's like, you know, I could spend half a day working on a poem and then kind of walk away and feel like, \"What did I actually do with my time today?\" While there's so many other kind of like tumultuous things happening in our political landscape. But I'll say my first introduction to poetry was, was actually as an organizer. So going back to my experiences as a student, spoken word poetry was really popular at the time in California as like a big part of a lot of, like, BIPOC political spaces that there was also this kind of like connection to hip hop and connection to spoken word. So that was, that was part of the culture that I came into as an organizer, and some of the groups that I was a part of at the time were kind of into hosting like spoken word open mics as, really as like an organizing mechanism, you know? It's like a way of bringing people together socially, but then, you know, that gave an opportunity to talk about campaigns that we were working on and to kind of like channel people into other things that were being planned. But I think with a lot of those open mics, it's like, there was the Page 17 of 17\nsense like, \"We need to make sure there's enough people signing up to make it, like, an energized event.\" So I think at a certain point, like, as a member of those groups there was like the expectation that like, you gotta write something. Show up with, like, ready to read, [laughter] you know, because we just like need to have enough people on the list. So that's really like how I started doing it or why I started doing it. But I think it was also like, being in that space and like organizing with folks, but then also like having this other, like, really vulnerable experience of like hearing other people read poems about their experiences as queer folks, as women, as people of color. You know, a lot of just really personal writing, I think. It was kind of a unique experience in organizing spaces to just get to be in that kind of like exchange with the people that I was working with, and I think helped really build just like a really thoughtful culture in terms of like how we held each other as organizers. So I think it really did have an impact in terms of me, like, valuing...Valuing the effect that something like poetry can have on relationships and on, like, the spaces that I was working in. You know, and then I think later on, I think there was other times where it's just like getting, getting to, like, be with a poem, or getting to spend time writing was also a way of helping keep myself sustainable in this kind of other, like, high-anxiety work that I was doing. So I think, like, when I was in Philly, there was a campaign that I was working on that was organizing other trans folks around a public transportation system issue that was at play at the time and, you know, was causing discrimination for trans folks. And I think I was feeling really challenged by being in leadership in that campaign. It was really stretching me in some ways that, that were difficult. And I started taking a poetry class at the community college in Philly because I was interested and wanted to explore it. But I think at that time, it was also just like really nice to have somewhere else to be at nine o'clock in the morning, like, three days a week. And that I could just give some mental space to something that wasn't political work. And I think that that just provided some sanctuary or some relief, and some ability to process some of the things that I was experiencing at the time. So, so yeah, I do think that it's, like, it's had its place in my political life even when that hasn't been totally obvious. And then I think more recently, like as I've, I've started to delve into it more seriously and tried to make a writing practice a bigger part of my life, I think...I think it also has something to do with like, reaching a point where I think the kind of spirit or the lens that I wanted to bring to my political work-- like, I wanted that to be guided by something and that wasn't...Wasn't at its core about oppression or hardship, if that makes sense. It was like, I didn't, I didn't want to be moving through the work that I was doing feeling like I always had to be positioned in a way that was, like, speaking from or moving from a sense of the ways that I've been harmed. Like, I think there was this kind of like shift where I was like, \"I really want to be able to bring a liberatory way of being and a liberatory practice to how I'm showing up in community and how I'm coming at the projects that I'm a part of,\" and I think it felt different to kind of put on this other hat and to say like, \"What if I think of myself as an artist, and what if I think of myself and my engagement in this work as primarily creative and Page 18 of 17\nartistic? And what does that do to like my long-term sustainability in the work or my ability to bring a different kind of vision to it?\" And that was just really freeing. Like, I did feel like that allowed me access to something, like, to just being grounded differently with people, and to just be able to move with a different kind of sense of lightness and playfulness in my work. And I think the only way that I've been able to kind of maintain that or access that in my organizing and facilitation work is by also taking my writing practice really seriously and actually giving that a lot of time and a lot of commitment.\nBEAM: That's super, super cool. I actually think that's a really wonderful place for us to leave it off, so I'm going to stop the recording.", "_version_": 1722905367780786176, "type": "Moving Image", "collection": "p16022coll97", "is_compound": false, "parent_id": "244", "thumb_url": "https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1369852/thumbnail/entry_id/1_ejdvttbn", "thumb_cdn_url": "https://dkp5i0hinw9br.cloudfront.net/7e5f70e82b0814eb5f42509bcb4da003d3702b97.png", "children": [ ] }